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Marin Vaccination Opt-Outs Increase, Despite the Science

| August 21, 2013
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by Amy Standen and Jon Brooks

Many Bay Area children are heading back to school this week, and in some of those schools kids are in more danger than ever of contracting preventable diseases because of parents who decline to vaccinate their children.

Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Image

Jeff J. Mitchell/Getty Image

Last year, 7.8 percent of Marin County parents – a 1 percent increase from the previous year — opted for “personal belief exemptions,” which allow them to send their kids to school unvaccinated against diseases like measles, chicken pox and whooping cough.

Marin has the highest opt-out rate in the Bay Area, and one of the highest in the state.

In Santa Cruz, 9.6 percent of parents chose personal belief exemptions, compared with 2.8 percent statewide.

County officials say these opt-out rates bring some towns below the “herd immunity” threshold, at which a community can broadly be considered safe against a particular communicable disease.

“Between 85 and 95 percent of a community should be vaccinated against disease for us to consider ourselves safe as a community from an outbreak,” said Matt Willis, public health officer for Marin County.

In 2012-13, at Sausalito’s New Village School, only 26 percent of incoming kindergarteners arrived vaccinated – five out of 19 students.

A Marin pediatrics office says it will no longer treat children who have not been vaccinated with the MMR vaccine by age 2.

“We now feel a concern that if there were a disease such as measles entering into that classroom, it would have an opportunity to spread and create an outbreak,” said Willis.

Willis said measles in particular is highly communicable and often carried back to a community by someone who has been traveling overseas.

Some pediatricians are pushing back.

Last year, Tamalpais Pediatrics, which cares for about 8,000 patients out of its Greenbrae and Novato clinics, told its patients that it would no longer treat children who have not been vaccinated with the measles/mumps/rubella vaccine by age 2.

“We decided this was a tinderbox,” said  Tamalpais Pediatrics’ Dr. Nelson Branco. “We didn’t want measles transmitted in our waiting room.”

Branco said about 25 families decided to take their kids elsewhere.

Starting in January, a new state law will require that parents who decline vaccinations must first come in for a consultation with a medical professional.

In 2010, more Californians came down with whooping cough than in any year since 1947. Ten babies died.

What the research says

Many parents have opted out of vaccinations due to a belief that they are linked to autism, despite a strong scientific consensus that it is not the case. The phenomenon of opting out of vaccines gained momentum after a 1998 study implicating the measles mumps and rubella vaccine appeared in The Lancet medical journal. The journal retracted the paper in 2010 after its author, Andrew Wakefield, was found to have had significant financial conflicts of interest and to have committed ethical violations while conducting his research. In 2010, after he lost his medical license in Britain, he said, “I never made the claim at the time, nor do I still make the claim that MMR is a cause of autism.”

No other studies have found a link between vaccines and autism. In 2012, a study published in Nature found that the more advanced age of men who have children may be contributing to the surging rates of autism.

Some parents who have opted out have focused on an alleged connection between  thimerosal, a preservative that has been used in vaccines, and autism. Multiple studies have debunked the link, however, and the substance has been eliminated from most vaccines in the U.S. for more than 10 years.

The issue of vaccinations has again made news recently after actress Jenny McCarthy, an outspoken proponent of the belief that they are linked to autism and an active campaigner against vaccines, was named a co-host on “The View.”

For a 2011 conversation with journalist Seth Mnookin, author of “The Panic Virus: The True Story Behind the Vaccine-Autism Controversy,” listen below.

Or watch Mnookin discuss the link between more affluent communities and vaccine opt-outs here…

If you still have questions, read 5 Things You Should Know About Vaccines on KQED’s State of Health blog.

And here’s KQED Public Radio’s Forum show segment on new efforts putting pressure on parents to vaccinate their children …

 

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Category: Health, Marin, Science

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  • Ramshackle Days

    The parents who refuse to vaccinate should not be able to send their kids to school.

    • robthom

      Thats fine.

      As long as I dont get taxed to pay for YOUR school.

      In fact that sounds like a great idea after seeing what you’ve done to the public school system.

      • Lawrence McNamara

        Of course, they always have the option to Home School their kids – which they probably should, since sending unvaccinated children into an environment made up of hundreds of other children is an extremely bad idea…..

  • robthom

    Well you can vaccinate YOUR kids and then you dont have to worry about how other people raise THEIR kids.

    (Oh yeah, Libs dont have kids. They multiply by forcing their agenda on the children of others.)

    • Joseph

      Robthom. How do I vaccinate an infant from pertussis? How do I vaccinate my friends child, a leukemia survivor who can’t be vaccinated because of the medical treatments to save her life.

      How do I protect those people in whom the vaccines just don’t work? (And yes, I know that vaccines work most the time, but not all the time. That’s simply the truth. We depend on herd immunity to complete the protection.)

      Oh yes, one other thing… If I were to find that your unvaccinated child gave a preventable illness to an infant, to my friends child, to anyone I’m close to…

      I’d sue you into the ground.

    • KAugsburger

      You are being naive to think that one’s decision to not vaccinate their children doesn’t affect other people. What about those that have compromised immune systems(e.g. HIV/AIDS or organ transplants) or are too young to be fully vaccinated? Also no vaccine is 100% effective.

      The higher the vaccination rate the less likely you are to be exposed to those diseases. You can’t get sick if you don’t get exposed to the bacteria or virus that causes that disease.

  • Anne Dachel

    July 31, 2013, Speaking from his home in Austin, Texas, VIDEO: http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/new-published-study-verifies-andrew-wakefields-research-on-autism-again/52355 Dr. Wakefield said,
    There can be very little doubt that vaccines can and do cause autism. In these children, the evidence for a n adverse reaction involving brain injury following the MMR that progresses to an autism diagnosis is compelling. It’s now a question of the body count. The parents’ story was right all along. Governments must stop playing with words while children continue to be damaged. My hope is that recognition of the intestinal disease in these children will lead to the relief of their suffering. This is long , long overdue.
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • Joseph

      I would find it amusing that you have been so taken in by a money grubbing fraud, Anne, if it weren’t for the harm you are causing to others by trying to frighten people away from vaccines. The simple fact is that your actions will have consequences, the consequences will not affect you personally but will rather strike the children and others who cannot be vaccinated, and that the consequences will be dire.

      A suggestion: If hanging out with Wakefield, guard your purse and your wallet. The man’s love of money is obscene.

      • lilady R.N.

        I’m not at all surprised about Anne’s devotion to the crooked ex-doctor. Ask her how much money she and AoA have raised to keep the Wakefield clan living in their $1,450,000 home. He’s always wanking for coins to support his lush lifestyle. AoA “manages” to convince their credulous working class readership that Andy needs the money.

    • Liz Ditz

      No matter how many times you parrot Wakefield’s fact-free opinions on autism and vaccines, they are still wrong, Anne.

      Vaccines are not causal in autism. Vaccines do not cause sudden infant death. Vaccines do not cause shaken-baby syndrome symptoms. And any other nonsense the anti-vaccine universe claims.

      Some children have gastrointestinal issues. Autistic children are sub-set of “some children”, so yes, some autistic children have gastrointestinal issues. Are there gastrointestinal issues that are unique to autism? Given how diverse the autistic spectrum is, it would be hard to make a scientifically-valid argument in that direction.

  • Anne Dachel

    In this CBS News report from 2007, reporter Sharyl Attkisson addressed what motivates a lot of the people in denial.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-625458.html
    Attkisson: “Other scientists and the CDC dispute such a link, but if it’s true, hundreds of thousands of American kids could be living with the fallout and the results could be devastating to vaccine makers and federal health officials who have steadfastly defended the use of mercury, a potent neurotoxin, in childhood vaccines.”
    That is the truth! ….”the results could be devastating to vaccine makers…”
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • Liz Ditz

      Anne, are you talking about the anti-science, anti-vaccination reporter Sharyl Attkisson? Why are you citing a fear-mongering news report from 2007, instead of recent science that makes the same “mercury causes autism” claim?

      Is it possible that there *is* no recent, sound science that makes that claim? In fact, there are recent studies that show the opposite — that even high mercury exposure isn’t associated with an increase in autism diagnoses.

      • Jens_disqussion

        Actually, the most reliable forms of science support an autism mercury link:

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20628440

        • Liz Ditz

          Actually, no, they don’t, Jens_disquission.

          The paper you mention (Desoto MC, Hitlan RT. 2010 Sorting out the spinning of autism: heavy metals and the question of incidence. Acta Neurobiol Exp (Wars). 2010;70(2):165-76.) does nothing of the sort.

          This paper (a review, really), and the previous Desoto Hitlan paper, was discussed in depth here

          The reviewer concluded:

          http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/08/03/prof-desoto-discusses-mercury-and-autism/

          “This begs the question of whether DeSoto and Hitlan are as guilty of those they chide. Re-analyzing the Ip data is not staking their career on a certain position. Repeatedly publishing on such a limited dataset does make this reader start to question whether some piece of their reputation is now tied to this position. With apologies to Prof. DeSoto, but the fact that her misimpressions of the Hewitson et al. paper are skewed towards the mercury hypothesis makes me wonder even more.

          The autism research community needs to have fresh eyes looking at questions and data. DeSoto and Hitlan did well to reanalyze the Ip data once the mistakes were shown. They just appear to this observer to have (a) overstated the interpretation of their analysis and (b) gotten very quickly in to exactly the sort of rut they accuse others of being in.”

  • Anne Dachel

    The short trailer to the movie The Greater Good, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmEGbwQsOU makes it clear that there are experts on both sides and a lot of serious questions that need to be asked. The medical community and health officials promote vaccines as the greatest achievement in modern medicine yet there is growing fear over vaccine side effects.
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • zanjam

      Thank you, Anne, for all you do for our community.

    • Liz Ditz

      All you need to know about the movie The Greater Good is that it is propaganda disguised as a documentary.

      Please read the following detailed review before watching the movie:

      http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-greater-good-pure-unadulterated-anti-vaccine-propagand/

    • lilady R.N.

      When the bot doesn’t shill for Wakey’s book, she’s shilling for that anti-vaccine anti-science movie.

      Shame on you Anne.

    • LBRB_Sullivan

      A yahoo search on the phrase “makes it clear that there are experts on both sides and a lot of serious questions that need to be asked” and “dachel” results in two pages of hits–places where you’ve posted the same spam and not taken the time to participate in the conversation.

      So, how exactly is having a news alert for vaccine related stories where you can post the same things over and over not spam?

      Answer, it is spam.

  • Anne Dachel

    On Fox News, May 10, 2011, New York University law professor Mary Holland discussed the fact that a stunning report from Pace Law School revealed that for years, parents have won vaccine damage suits resulting in autism in federal court, all the while the government denied doing so. http://video.foxnews.com/v/4687300/law-school-links-autism-vaccines-in-report/
    HDNet TV exposed the fact that while health officials continue to tell us studies show no link, the federal government has paid out millions of dollars for compensation for vaccine injuries that included autism.
    http://www.ebcala.org/unanswered-questions
    Video “Mixed Signals” On HDNet TV: http://blip.tv/hdnet-world-report/vaccines-and-autism-mixed-signals-5479546
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • Liz Ditz

      Honestly, Anne, how you can promote the Holland paper with a straight face is beyond me. From a detailed examination of the study

      “As is typical with such “studies” generated by the anti-vaccine movement, it was bad science, bad law, and just plain bad all around. The authors intentionally conflated “autistism-like” symptoms with autism, trying to claim that children with neurological injury with “autism-like” symptoms actually have autism. Never mind that there are specific diagnostic criteria for autism and that, if the children actually had autism many of the would have been given a diagnosis of autism. Never mind that what they were doing was akin to claiming that all patients with “Parkinson’s-like symptoms” have Parkinson’s disease. (Hint: They don’t.) Never mind that all they did was to demonstrate a prevalence of autism spectrum disorders among the VICP-compensated children that was clearly within the range of what would be anticipated if there were no relationship between vaccines and autism. Never mind all that. This was Holland’s big chance, but it went over like the proverbial led balloon.”

      http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/05/24/anti-vaccine-warriors-vs-research-ethics/

    • LBRB_Sullivan

      Funny, I see the same comment here: http://www.tctimes.com/living/number-of-parents-turning-down-vaccines-is-on-the-rise/article_f07526f8-0a63-11e3-a1c2-001a4bcf887a.html#comment-16859e8e-0a84-11e3-92f8-6793393ada5f

      Just like there, you post a lot of comments, copied and pasted from previous places, and don’t participate in the conversation.

      I call that spam.

    • lilady R.N.

      Mary Holland and her chief investigator Lou Conte never sought IRB approval to conduct that study.

      Had they sought IRB approval from Pace University the study would have never been approved. You work at a college don’t you Anne? Why don’t you know that.

      Lou Conte is an ex-cop and totally unqualified to be the chief researcher on a study of that nature and totally unqualified to read or comprehend medical records.

      They managed to confuse all sorts of developmental disabilities with autism

  • Anne Dachel

    Those who want to know the truth about Andrew Wakefield, you’ll find it in his book, Callous Disregard. One thing need to be realized. The British government indemnified the maker of the MMR vaccine. It’s the UK government that will ultimately be held responsible for the damage from this vaccine. Is it any wonder that he’s been so vilified?
    http://www.amazon.com/Callous-Disregard-Autism-Vaccines-Tragedy/dp/B0085SCM4G
    I wrote this story for Age of Autism about how the media fails to honestly cover the role of Dr. Wakefield.
    http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/01/gmas-stephanopoulos-walks-over-dr-andrew-wakefield.html
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • Joseph

      Anne Dachel:
      You believe Wakefield to be an honest and an upstanding man. That is fine, you are entitled to your belief.

      But how do you explain the fact that he took hundreds of thousands of dollars to falsify a study that would attack the MMR vaccine?

      How do you explain the fact that he boasted about the money he planned to make from selling kits to detect his nonexistant vaccine disease?

      How do you explain the charges of child abuse (for treatment given to those in his care, including lumbar punctures and other unnecessary and painful proceedures) that helped get his license yanked?

      How do you explain the fact that NO REPUTABLE STUDY has ever replicated his data?

      How do you explain the fact that in Japan, during a vaccine shortage, autism rates went UP, rather than down?

      When you can explain these to a reasonable person’s satisfaction I’ll be willing to listen to you.

      • ccdaddy

        Dr. Wakefield explains,every dollar received by the findings were to be donated to the Royal Free. Children’s Gastro. dept.

        A judge just ruled on Dr.John Walker Smiths case,he was stripped at the same time Andy was of his license to practice medicine. He said that he did not see any proof the children did not get a good standard of care. Cryshame parents welcome with immense relief the end of the eight year ordeal of Prof John Walker-Smith and the quashing of all substantive charges against him in the High Court, and wish him their heartfelt congratulations at finally clearing his name.

        In an unflamboyant 70 page judgment Sir John Mitting (see photo) was unable to establish any reasoning behind the GMC’s findings, relating either to the ordering of inappropriate investigative procedures on children, or to the claim that the controversial 1998 Wakefield Lancet paper (of which Prof Walker-Smith was senior author) was based a research protocol 172-96 which the GMC further alleged to be funded by the Legal Aid Board rather than an “early report” reviewing the cases of patients seen entirely on the basis of clinical need, as stated. These allegations, which were originally made against Prof Walker-Smith (as well as Dr Andrew Wakefield and Prof Simon Murch) by journalist Brian Deer and Liberal-Democrat politician Evan Harris in the Sunday Times in 2004, have now been shown to be completely unfounded.

        This judgment not only vindicates Prof Walker-Smith (one of two acknowledged world pioneers in the field of paediatric-gastroenterology) but also families seeking treatment for autistic children, and now adults, with clinical issues – particularly gut related – who have been denied appropriate investigation and treatment for more than a decade in British hospitals as a consequence of the witch-hunt against Prof Walker-Smith and colleagues, conducted by both the GMC and parts of the media. Cryshame particularly regrets the present failure of the Leveson Inquiry to look in to a succession of complaints regarding the media’s handling of these matters, which has been to the detriment of thousands of sick British children.

        We note that the charges against Prof Walker-Smith – which have now been proven false – were integral to the case brought against Andrew Wakefield. We believe that many people in the medical profession and in journalism have known that these charges were flawed and unsustainable in a proper court of law for a long time, but the defence of the vaccine programme has taken precedence over truth and justice.

        Continued

        • Liz Ditz

          It is really simple, ccdaddy. The Walker-Smith judgment in no way exonerated Wakefield.

          http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/03/08/andy-wakefield-exonerated-because-john-w/

          • ccdaddy

            Your wrong! the same evidence used to discredit Dr.Smith was the same evidence used to discredit Dr.Wakefield.

            Also the Judge said, he found no proof the children were given substandard care.

            Stop trying to hurt a real Man, that has stood up for children
            who are suffering fierce.
            In the face of loosing everything, he did what was right That,s the test of integrity. And the Hero, Dr.Wakefield has passed with flying colors.

            Do you really think that Dr.Wakefield could not have taken the easier road. If, he had wanted to? It would have been, as easy as doing what the rest have. Practicing, willful ignorance.

            Hoping and praying, they can continue to claim plausible deniability. Not if, but when truth out’s on the biggest
            mistake ever made in medicine. That’s has effected, a generation of American children.

          • bpatient

            “Do you really think that Dr.Wakefield could not have taken the easier road.”

            If I or any other medical researcher was offered salary and research support to replicate in a large study the controversial results of my potentially-important preliminary study, the conclusion would be a given. Strangely, Wakefield rejected the opportunity to replicate in a study of hundreds of children the results that he reported from a paper involving 12 children–and there is only one reason that I can think of that explains why he made that choice. Honestly, if he was right he would have been a true hero, but if he was wrong he would have been shown to be a fraud–so he took what was obviously the “easier road” for him.

          • lilady R.N.

            The “easier road” for him was taking himself and his clan out of the U.K. and getting rich benefactors (and not so rich benefactors), to support his posh lifestyle in Austin Texas.

            I’ve followed the money and the money leads me to Wakefield’s doorstep.

      • ccdaddy

        I wrote this to a guy that was Bashing Dr.Wakefield to show him that money that was going to be lost. Was the main reason, they attacked Dr Wakefield. This is where it gets funny his link he told me to go to was where I found this treasure trove of Info.
        The finding of a link to bowel disease and the MMR would have destroyed not just GSK but Merck also.
        Many Golden Retirement Parachutes were destined to drop like a rock, if Dr.Wakefields work were to go on.
        So Dr.Wakefield was made their escape goat,and he had to be silenced discredited at all cost. Not just in the UK but here in the US. as well.
        Here’s Truth unfolding.
        This was wrote by LONDON (Reuters) This year, he gave up his directorships of GlaxoSmithKline. ( Speaking of Murdoch )
        If you cannot see the stupidity, of having someone with this much influence with the media on a pharma Co. GSK board.
        You have no soul, left.
        This is from your own! link [Sir Crispin Davis] Reed Elsevier’s CEO, Sir Crispin Davis.
        MMR JUDGE FAILED TO DISCLOSE HE WAS BROTHER OF Glaxo SmithKline DIRECTOR AND LANCET BOSS. Remember the Lancet, that removed Dr.Wakefields work. It appears he Davis had money to lose if it stayed in the lancet.
        He Hogg took the parents funding away, so they would not get help for their lawsuits for vaccine damaged children. His brother had many conflicts of interest.
        Mr Justice Davis (aka Sir Nigel Anthony Lamert Davis), who had dismissed the appeal over the removal of funding of the MMR litigation by the Legal Services Commission was the brother of Lancet proprietor (CEO Reed Elsevier) Crispin (Henry Lamert) Davis who at the time had also recently become a non-executive director of Glaxo SmithKline. Though this has not been reported in the media the following press announcement was issued by the judiciary yesterday afternoon:
        “In 2003 Mr Justice Davis’s brother was appointed as a Non-Executive Director of Glaxo SmithKline, a company which was formed as a result of a merger with Smith Kline Beecham. At the date of the hearing before Davis J, the possibility of any conflict of interest arising from his brother’s position did not occur to him.
        You! can’t see anything wrong with this kind of corruption?
        Thank’s for the link, you helped me make my point.

        • lilady R.N.

          OMG, watch out! ccdaddy a.k.a. Joe Harris is going full bore into his conspiracy mode.

          I love your turn of a phrase cc; “So Wakefield was made their escape goat…”

          • ccdaddy

            You really cannot see, that all those with GSK ties that went after Dr.Wakefield had one thing in common. Their desire, to save their Golden Retirement Parachutes.

    • KAugsburger

      I don’t think you are going to get the truth from a book written by Andrew Wakefield. Not only did Wakefield fail to disclose his conflicts of interest(e.g. payments from various attorneys looking to sue vaccine makers, a patent for his own vaccine) but his original data didn’t even support his own personal conclusions. He doctored the reported data sets to support his predetermined conclusions.

      Those curious in Wakefield’s work would do better to read Brian Deer’s numerous investigative articles that exposed Wakefield as a fraud. See http://briandeer.com/mmr-lancet.htm

    • Autismum

      So Wakers has you shilling for him. Classy. Well, I suppose that’s a step up from trying to fleece the families of autistic kids. Has that well run dry or are people finally seeing through him, Anne?

      • lilady R.N.

        The AoA bot shills for all the crank disgraced and discredited former doctors (Mark Geier), who are her heroes.

    • lilady R.N.

      Yeah sure Anne. According to you and your pals at AoA, every respected journalist in the United States and the U.K. is against your hero Wakefield.

      Wakefield deliberately scared Somali-American parents off getting their children immunized with MMR vaccine. He met secretly three times (that we are aware of) with those Minneapolis parents and lied to to them about the now thoroughly debunked link, between MMR vaccine and the onset of autism.

      He, and he alone, is responsible for the major measles outbreak that took place in Hennepin County (Minneapolis), that was reported in the MMWR:

      http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6013a6.htm

      On March 2, 2011, the Minnesota Department of Health (MDH) confirmed
      measles in a Hennepin County resident aged 9 months. As of April 1,
      investigation of contacts and heightened surveillance had revealed a total of 13 epidemiologically linked cases in Hennepin County residents. Of those cases, 11 were laboratory confirmed, and two were in household contacts of confirmed cases and met the clinical case definition for measles.

      The patients included children aged 4 months–4 years and one adult aged 51 years; seven of the 13 were of Somali decent. Eight patients were hospitalized. Vaccination status was known for 11 patients: five were too young to have been vaccinated, and six (all of Somali descent) had not been vaccinated because of parental concerns about the safety of the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine. The most recent rash onset was March 28. An additional, unrelated case of measles was confirmed in a Hennepin County resident aged 34 years who was exposed in Orlando, Florida, sometime during March 1–10.

      The investigation determined that the index patient was a U.S.-born child of Somali descent, aged 30 months, who developed a rash February 15, 14 days after returning from a trip to Kenya. The patient attended a drop-in child care center 1 day before rash onset; measles developed in three contacts at the center and in one household contact. Secondary and tertiary exposures occurred in two congregate living facilities for homeless persons (four patients), an emergency department (two patients), and households (two patients). A virus isolate from the index patient was genotyped at CDC as B3, which is endemic in sub-Saharan Africa.”

      Wakefield is a public health menace.

  • Anne Dachel

    The MMR vaccine has not been cleared of a link to autism. The controversy is very much alive. The debate began in the 1990′s and Wakefield has been blamed for linking this vaccine to bowel disease and autism. Many powerful forces have tried to silence him but he continues to talk about the evidence he’s seen.
    Oct 7, 2009 CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson interviewed Andrew Wakefield: Controversy Over Vaccine Research http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTh97pANTxc
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • Joseph

      Anne, once again, you are wrong.

      Autism and the MMR vaccine aren’t linked in the slightest. There are mountains of evidence that shows no possible link. A link to a government site, not to a master of fraud…

      http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/

      And one to the American academy of Pediatrics:

      http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/mmr.html

      But there are more nails in this coffin.

      Seems that Autism is highly correlated with induced labor. This evidence shows that either events during labor or events before labor occurs which lead to an induced labor may be the trigger. What exactly it is isn’t known yet, we need more research.

      (I’ve linked this in an earlier comment. Scroll back.)

      But until you can show me how a vaccine can travel backwards in time and affect a child before birth, give it up. The horse you’re beating?

      It’s dead.

      • ccdaddy

        Joseph lets spar!

      • ccdaddy

        Joseph look who you are quoting, the CDC and the AAP the two that stand to lose the most when the truth outs. And everybody finds out, that they accidentally poisoned the children. And then when they were shown they did it, they went back in with the Mercury so the numbers wouldn’t fall. That’s, premeditated poisoning of the American children.

    • lilady R.N.

      How many more studies would it take Anne, to convince you that your hero Wakefield lied 15 years ago and is still lying?

      Try this PubMed line listing of 357 studies published in first tier peer reviewed journals that prove that Wakefield was and is a pathological liar and there is no link between MMR vaccine and the onset of autism:

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?linkname=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=19952979

      You are so wrapped up in your own conspiracies and conspiracy theories at AoA that you wouldn’t know truth if it walked up and slapped you upside the head.

    • LBRB_Sullivan

      So, you appear to have posted this same comment on seven different websites.

      say, for example, here

      http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XOkDgs2T5KYJ:commonhealth.wbur.org/2013/08/jenny-on-the-view+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us#comment-985886877

      Are you spam? You’re comments aren’t specific to this article and you don’t participate in the discussion. I consider it spam.

  • Anne Dachel

    To understand the damage from the MMR, listen to the parents of the injured children. They came to Wakefield, a British gastroenterologist, for help when their healthy children suddenly regressed into autism and bowel disease after being vaccinated with the MMR vaccine.

    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • Liz Ditz

      “They came to Wakefield” Anne, after all these years, you MUST know that’s a bald-faced lie put about by Wakefield. The families were recruited by a British law firm, Dawbarns, looking to file the UK-equivalent of a class-action suit against the MMR manufacturers.

      • Liz Ditz

        See this

        “Mr. Wakefield has asserted over the years that the children for the Lancet study came through “formal channels”. He denied the possibility of litigation bias in a letter to the Lancet.

        Amongst the myriad questions left open is why did a group of parents of disabled children seek out Mr. Wakefield’s team when that team had no particular expertise in autism. Why did families from all over the U.K. and beyond seek out the Royal Free Hospital?

        There is evidence elsewhere in the transcripts of Mr. Wakefield’s direct involvement with recruiting some children for his study, but here we can see how the law firm was actively recruiting children, and that Mr. Wakefield was aware of this.

        http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/10/20/6337/

    • lilady R.N.

      So why didn’t the parents of the children in Wakefield’s “study”…who now claim their devotion to him and his “work”, testify on his behalf at Wakefield’s GMC hearing, Anne?

      They would have be sworn in and only needed to tell the truth, yet didn’t testify. Why didn’t they, Anne?

    • LBRB_Sullivan

      Looks to me like you’ve posted this same comment over 5 times on other sites. How, exactly, is this contributing to this conversation and not spam?

      http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=chr-greentree_gc&ei=utf-8&ilc=12&type=407453&p=%22To+understand+the+damage+from+the+MMR%22+dachel

  • Anne Dachel

    The stunning movie, Hear the Silence, http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/02/banned-wakefield-films-from-british-tv-emerge-on-youtube-after-nearly-a-decade.html stars the outstanding British actor, Hugh Bonneville (Downton Abbey), as Dr. Wakefield. (The movie is in English with Hebrew subtitles.)
    I interviewed Dr. Wakefield about the making of this film. http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/03/hear-the-silence-a-film-about-autism.html
    Anne Dachel, Medical editor: Age of Autism

    • Autismum

      Ah well, if the *actor* playing a fraudster is in Downton Abbey that makes all the difference! Where can I donate to the justice fund? Sigh!

    • Liz Ditz

      So now you are scraping down to made-for-TV-mocumentaries to defend Wakefield, Anne? Is that all you have?

      Wakefield’s many transgressions against medical ethics and fiduciary ethics can’t be washed out by a performance by an outstanding actor.

    • lilady R.N.

      More Spam. Are you now claiming to the “Medical editor: Age of Autism” ?

  • Anne Dachel

    Dr. Peter Fletcher, former Chief Scientific Officer in the UK talked about the MMR vaccine in the Daily Mail in 2006: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-376203/Former-science-chief-MMR-fears-coming-true.html
    “[Fletcher] said he has seen a ‘steady accumulation of evidence’ from scientists worldwide that the measles, mumps and rubella jab is causing brain damage in certain children.
    “But [Fletcher] added: ‘There are very powerful people in positions of great authority in Britain and elsewhere who have staked their reputations and careers on the safety of MMR and they are willing to do almost anything to protect themselves.’”
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • Joseph

      I’d argue that your source, one doctor, is standing firm against the opinion and research of thousands of others.

      And also, his claim seems to be that he still makes the claim that the MMR vaccine causes autism.

      Given that autism has now been linked (via correlation) with induced labor, and given the strength of that correlation, his entire argument has been shot down.

      http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1725449

      • ccdaddy

        Anne the Calvary is here, Joseph is about to learn somethings his buddy’s at CDC and AAP are not telling him.

        That’s BS like all the BS studies, trying to blame the parents.

        From the Simpsonwood meeting, where the CDC AAP FDA and the vaccine makers went to discuss the study that proved Vaccines were causing Autism.

        Below is an excerpt of the author Dr.Verstraeten of the study that they met to discuss and to handle his findings.

        Dr. Verstraeten: Page 162: ” When I saw this, and I went back through the literature, I was actually stunned by what I saw because I thought it is plausible. First of all there is the Faeroe study, which I think people have dismissed too easily, and there is a new article in the same Journal that was presented here, the Journal of Pediatrics, where they have looked at PCB. They have looked at other contaminants in seafood and they have adjusted for that, and still mercury comes out.

        Dr. Koller, pg. 192: “…As you increase the vaccination, you increase effects, but you don’t know. You have modified live viruses. You have different antigens. There is a lot of things in those vaccinations other than mercury, and we don’t know whether this is a vaccination effect or a mercury effect. But I am almost sure it is not a mercury effect. Positive as a matter of fact, and there are several experts particularly that have reviewed this, the methylmercury aspect who would agree with that due to dose response.”

        Pay close attention Joseph, he’s fixing to tell you what is causing Autism. They call it effects, and he very clearly explains as you increase the vaccinations, you increase the effects.

        Dr.Koller Pg.192

        As you increase the vaccination, you increase effects, but you don’t know. You have modified live viruses. You have different antigens. There is a lot of things in those vaccinations other than mercury.

        I would like to ask Dr.Koller, if there that bad why are you injecting them in children?

        I love this, and it makes me wonder was he receiving funding from the Thimerosal makers. He appears to be gung-ho for Thimerosal while throwing the rest of the vaccine ingredients under the bus.

        As you read on down, you will find that the real life vaccine schedule, completely destroys his thoughts that there was not enough of the Thimerosal for a response.

        They were there at that meeting, to discuss what they consider low. 62 .5 micro-grams by 6 mos.

        But, even at that amount they were in trouble. Because 2.00 was legal and they were at 2.48 times risk. .48 over legal, of 2.00 they knew was that a link was established.

        In real life, children get way more. In fact 7 vaccines that contain Mercury that is 162.5 at one ped visit. So his assertion, that there’s not a dose big enough for a dose response. Is obliterated by real life, Vaccine schedules. So even the bad they tried to hide, was now made much much worse by just calculating real life amounts given to our American children.

        Add 2 flu vaccines, in a pregnant woman and amount is now 212.5. Although, one might ask if pregnant. Why they would give you a Thimerosal containing flu shot. When the Manufacturers, Material Safety Data Sheet states plainly.That, pregnant are not ever supposed to be even exposed to it.

        From the MSDS of the vaccine preservative Thimerosal.

        “Pregnant women are never supposed to be exposed to Thimerosal,for it can cross the placenta and go into the baby

        and cause mild to severe mental retardation”

        Add 2 Rogam vaccines prenatal and that is now 262.5. If 62.5 micro grams by 6 mos is 2.48 times risk for Autism. What is 262.5 by the same 6 mos. ???

        The mass poisoning, of American children and the main culprit responsible for the Autism epidemic.

        Fact, Prenatal Mercury via Rhogam and Flu vaccines is what is causing children to be born with Autism.

        Also, the NIH paid study done by Dr. Burbacher on baby primates found that Thimerosal crosses the blood brain barrier easier than does the fish mercury. And after it enters the brain, it turns into Inorganic Mercury at 2.5 times that as does the fish mercury.

        The most damaging to the Mitochondria, is Inorganic Mercury first. And then MSG, Both of which are in children’s vaccines.

        The CDC, was told in a meeting with 6 teams of Mitochondria specialist that Mitochondria problems in kids was turning into Autism like symptoms.

        They were also told that Mitochondria problems are not rare at all, in fact 1 in 50 may have the nuclear DNA for the disorder. They then said, the possibility’s for Autism then. ” are staggering ”

        By a few weeks time, the Dir of the CDC did a press conference. Because of the new findings on Neurologist Dr. Poling daughter. Who had 9 vaccines, at one ped visit and in 2 days had full blown Autism. You see readers, the CDC Dir. said she had a very rare Mitochondria disorder. And according to the CDC’s Dir.she said you cannot compare Hannah to the other children with Autism.

        Hannah had a very rare Mitochondria disorder,that the vaccines turned into Autistic like symptoms. I guess the 6 teams of specialist, that told her Mitochondria problems are not rare at all. Were ignored?

        The 6 teams of specialist also said to the CDC, under no circumstances are you to do nothing in this. If you choose to do nothing, we will turn over what we have found to the public. They then said ” the clock is ticking ”

        The CDC was told that something is pushing the immune system far beyond it metabolic reserves could handle. The specialist then suggested that Vaccines
        do that.

        The six teams said that they were impressed at how well the CDC took the news. That their vaccines, were implicated in the rise of the Autism epidemic.

        • bpatient

          Isn’t quote mining fun?

          Isn’t it much easier than understanding research results from all the years since the subjects you quoted discussed preliminary results?

        • lilady R.N.

          What “calvary” are you referring to?

  • Anne Dachel

    This link shows the dramatic increase in the number of vaccine our children received between 1983 and 2012.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-arqv6t8VacY/T7QvOcTrpmI/AAAAAAAAD-U/EBqU4n3R0SE/s1600/VaxCDC.png
    Where is even one study on the cumulative effect of the increasing number of vaccines in the childhood schedule? THERE ISN’T ONE
    Anne Dachel, Media editor: Age of Autism

    • KAugsburger

      That claim just isn’t true. I can point to several recent studies on that topic just within the last few months. Clearly Anne is either naive or more likely she is aware of those studies and can’t explain why they aren’t relevant. In either case I would take advise anyone any of her claims with a grain salt.

      See http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pds.3482/abstract

      or http://jpeds.com/webfiles/images/journals/ympd/JPEDSDeStefano.pdf

      Here’s another article from 2010 from the Journal Pediatrics:

      http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/6/1134.abstract

      or another article from 2002:

      http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124.full

    • Stacy Mintzer Herlihy

      The Daschel-bot and her ilk know nothing of the truth. She also won’t answer questions like which vaccines she dislikes and which particular vaccine-preventable diseases she wants back.

      • ccdaddy

        I dare you, to list the ingredients of vaccines. And then, prove that much heavy metals and toxins is safe in a child. It’s, not possible.

        • Stacy Mintzer Herlihy

          Vaccines could have arsenic in them. As long as it was in a small enough quantity it wouldn’t matter. I am sorry this fact seems beyond your comprehension. Perhaps a biology or chemistry class should be on your agenda?
          In the meantime tell us which vaccines you want to stop and which vaccine-preventable diseases you would like back.

          • ccdaddy

            you really need to read my post, that includes the real vaccine schedule. And the amount of Mercury, that really wen’t into our kids. Not! what amount they do their studies on.

            Think about it, they do their studies on 62.5 micro grams by 6 mos. Fact is, the Idiots at the AAP and CDC allow up to 9 vaccines all at once at one point in time. In a tiny little body.

            I know, you do not want to believe anything I say. So I will just use, someone you might trust. Dr.Maurice Hilleman he was the creator of Merck’s vaccine program for children.

            His words, are impossible for you to deny.

            Dr.Hilleman; “on the next vaccine schedule, the children will be getting 87 times what the EPA considers safe. “and I am concerned” “this was not daily doses as such, this was Bolus doses given all at once at one point in time”

            “when viewed in that manner,he said it appears rather large”

            That’s at 87 times what the EPA considers safe, what about 160 times what the EPA considers Liquid Hazardous Waste
            of Mercury that’s given all at once at one point in time?

            And then if you still think that is not much, add 2 flu shots at 50 micro grams. And after that if that’s not enough add another 2 Rogams at another 50 micro grams. Have we reached, your threshold you think that all the American children can tolerate.

            Also, the NIH paid study done by Dr. Burbacher on baby primates found that Thimerosal crosses the blood brain barrier easier than does the fish mercury. And after it enters the brain, it turns into Inorganic Mercury at 2.5 times that as does the fish mercury.

            The most damaging to the Mitochondria, is Inorganic Mercury first. And then MSG, Both of which are in children’s vaccines.

          • Stacy Mintzer Herlihy

            You’re just babbling. None of that is true. Vaccines contain minor amounts of chemicals that are harmless in the amounts used.

          • ccdaddy

            Are you really, that naive? I posted truth, about Dr.Hilleman
            & it’s easily fact cked. He told you, that the amount was in Boluses doses. When viewed in that manner, it appeared rather large. Stacy, he was the grandfather of the Merck’s
            children’s vaccine program. So what is your problem, are you like the FDA’s people. Not able, to do the ninth grade math that it takes to add all the Thimerosal up to neurological damage and mercury poisoning.

          • Stacy Mintzer Herlihy

            That alleged quote of yours is directly taken from whale to and has not a fact in it. Whale to is a holocaust denial website run by a pig farmer from Wales. People who can’t understand the difference between the CDC and a holocaust denial website put up by an evil moron should not be allowed on the net. Shame on you!

          • ccdaddy

            No it wasn’t, it was a memo from Merck. A scientist left Merck and he took that memo with him. Look it up on line, it’s called the Merck Memo. It’s real, and it’s valid. Deal with it.

            And as far as the Whale site you speak of, I have no idea what it says. But I assure you, if it deny s the Holocaust his time to be judged is coming. For the Holocaust was real, and as far as that goes. So is the vaccine damage, that my son suffered from vaccines. And like the deniers of the Holocaust,the people that are defending the new Holocaust of vaccine damaged children.

            They to,shall answer to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the one true God. The God that answered by fire, he shall bring justice to these children. And, it will be in a court were the CDC cannot buy and threaten the outcome.

          • Stacy Mintzer Herlihy

            The quotes you pulled up came directly from whale to, a notorious site run by a moron. Only an idiot would believe such nonsense.

          • ccdaddy

            Here is the link, to the Memo and the Memo is in a PDF file.

            http://www.bolenreport.com/Mark%20Geier/Reference%201%20-%20Hilleman%20Memo%20(2).pdf

          • Stacy Mintzer Herlihy

            Please go read something besides holocaust denial websites and other paranoid nonsense. Thanxbye.

          • ccdaddy

            You did not see that LA Times carried that story of the Merck Memo? and did you not open the PDF file revealing the Memo from Merck? I gave you the link!

            Your answer, is to bug out? Do you know how dumb you that makes you look about now? for anybody following our post. Can see, you were just cornered like a rat.

          • lilady R.N.

            You actually subscribe to Bolen’s paranoid ramblings about vaccines? Cripes you are gullible and a fool.

            http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2010/06/31-tim-bolen.html

            Why don’t you get a job ccdaddy…instead of whinging about your plight in life and your “vaccine-injured child”.

            I realize you have a very limited skill set…but retrieving aluminum cans alongside roadways, could provide you and your family with a steady income.

          • ccdaddy

            It appears that Dr.Maurice Hilleman was dying when he decided to grow a conscience and warn Dr.Gordon Douglas of Merck.

            Dr. Douglas ignored Dr.Hilleman and then suggested several more vaccine containing the Thimerosal.

            He appears to be a man, if you can call him that. That puts Co. profits in front of children’s safety. He has since left Merck, and he now works in LOLin vaccine safety in the NIH.

            So now, they own controlling vaccine safety.

          • ccdaddy

            According to you,Vaccines contain minor amounts of chemicals that are harmless in the amounts used.

            Have you ever heard of the synergy effect of other heavy metals and toxins. When mixed to gather, it can cause the primary toxin to increase by 10 to 100 times the original toxicity. FYI on the MSDS of Thimerosal it states under re-activity data. To never mix with Aluminum. Stacy guess what is in children’s vaccines as a catalyst. ” Aluminum ”
            Are you not able to find fault, with Idiots that appear to
            never heed warnings even when from the Manufacturer.

          • Linda Tock

            Except there’s never been any evidence of a synergistic effect of vaccines from any vaccine on the schedule in the US. The Vaccine Safety Datalink monitors a large cohort (100,000+ kids) for any such problem.

    • lilady R.N.

      The Spam bot from AoA is alive and well.

  • prince adam

    The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
    ~ Winston Churchill

  • Joseph

    I expect the dropout rate in vaccinations to increase over time until there is a large enough unvaccinated population (mostly children) to fuel a measles outbreak. Once that happens I would expect measles to appear. The disease has the tendency to come roaring back at any opportunity. (Ask the people in Wales.) And the people who put their community and their children at risk will be rushing to the doctors to get the vaccine, all the while moaning “Why didn’t anybody warn us how bad this would be?”

    Well, I’m warning you now.

    It will be bad. If only the adult anti-vaxxers were at risk I’d not mind as much, although I know how devastaing measles complications can be. But the children are at risk of blindness, of brain damage, deafness, or death. I cringe to think what will happen to them.

    And if, by the way, some comment is made that vaccines are MORE dangerous than the measles, I’ll laugh at the idiot making it. That person is going up against a mountain of hard, peer reviewed scientific evidence, long term studies, and careful research.

    • ccdaddy

      The vaccine MMR is destroying the Guts of American children. The original,

      single dose package insert of Measles. Said to not give, within 3 weeks to a month of another live virus. You see, that was well thought out warning and scientific advice. Because they knew, that if you did give them to close together

      the body may not be able to stop one of the viruses from embedding it’s self in the Gut. Yes, the Measles has in some children set up residence in the body.

      Wake Forest University, found out of 82 children with Autism, 70 were found proof positive for vaccine strain measles in their Gut. The lead author of the study,took the time to make it clear that ” not one was wild strain ”

      The headlines are reading today are; Dramatic Increase in Hospitalization of US Children With Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

      Excuse me, isn’t that what the Hero Dr Wakefield was saying was happening
      to the children he was scoping. A new variant of inflammatory bowel disease.

      The largest investigation to date has found a dramatic increase in the number of hospitalizations for children with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) during the past decade in the United States.

      One would have to be a fool, to not believe that the measles being found in children s Guts is causing inflammation.

      You can thank Merck and GSK the makers of the MMR.

      • bepatienz

        Do you understand that the Wake Forest University study that you mentioned has not been published in the years since it emerged as a poster session at a conference that included (since published) work that showed why the Wake Forest study was wrong?

        Wakefield’s hypothesis (which he plainly stated as follows: “The widespread use of MMR immunization is a major determinant of the apparent (now substantiated) increase in rates of autism.” [Pediatrics 2001; 107; e84]) is just wrong. Get over it.

        • ccdaddy

          You do understand, the research is still on going and they are using the latest tech. And they are finding, that down at the molecular level the bowel problems in these kids.

          This story has not yet been told,but it will be told.

          And you will see people jumping ship, like drowning rats in the CDC AAP FDA.

          Peoples pay ck’s for defending pharma like yours,will dry up.
          Then, you will have to go back to sacking grocery’s.

          • bpatient

            “And they are finding, that down at the molecular level the bowel problems in these kids.”

            Although that sentence doesn’t make any sense, I suppose that you are attempting to refer to the most recent study from that group which, because it lacked essential controls, simply supported the evidence that there are differences in gene expression between children with ASD and children without ASD.

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Thanks to your postings here I thing that 99.99999% of
            readers exactly understand the anti-vaccs.

            Thanks so much.

            W&N

      • White_and_Nerdy

        The Wake Forest scientists have been complaining for years about the anti-vaccs lying about their work and how it does NOT support the idea that vaccines cause autism.

        Surprise, once again the anti-vaccs simply do not care one, teeny, tiny bit about our children’s health….or truth….or even basic personal integrity….

        W&N

      • zunithecat

        everyone – just stop engaging this guy (ccdaddy). if his command of basic english grammar rules has even the slightest bearing on his knowledge of fundamental scientific principles and the scientific process, there’s no hope of this going anywhere. he’s trying to engage you, not debate with you. this person clearly has a personality disorder and deep distrust – in just about everything; however, we should pay attention to these types as they are ones who spread their hysteria by fear mongering and prowling on the impressionable to fulfill their narcissism. I must admit I’m fairly amused how the lowly ‘gut’ is now elevated to capital status: the ‘Guts of American children.’ hee hee

        • White_and_Nerdy

          My 2 cents.

          There is zero chance of reasoning with someone who simply
          has zero interest/compassion/care for our children.

          What can be helpful is to bookmark sites like this.

          And then one day you are talking with a parent who says you
          won’t believe what I read on the Net….and you can show them not only that what they read was wrong but you can also show them that the posters making the claims know they are lies.

          I find this to be extremely helpful to most parents….whose
          interest is their kids…

          W&N

        • lilady R.N.

          ccdaddy posts under a variety of ‘nyms. I wouldn’t diagnosis him over the internet except to say he is fixated on the Simpsonwood Conference. He is constantly posting so apparently he is unemployed (or perhaps unemployable).

    • lilady R.N.

      There is a serious outbreak of measles (10 confirmed cases) reported in the Fort Worth Texas area. I fear that by the end of the year, confirmed cases of measles will exceed the 222 confirmed cases reported by the CDC during 2011.

      • ccdaddy

        Quit fear mongering, Lilady. Time will go on, vaccines or not! The world did not end, before vaccines were introduced.

        • Heraldblog

          You’re right, ccdaddy. Nature is cruel. Just like your logic.

          • lilady R.N.

            ccdaddy is just full of factoids…all wrong.

          • ccdaddy

            Are you stupid?or just doing your job. And if you are, your not doing it very well. And the readers can see that.

            Is 00.2 ppb considered safe for water?

            Is 200 ppb EPA standard for LHW ?

            Now, care to add up all the Mercury that was in the kids Vaccines in the 90”s playing AAP CDC catch up. When behind.

            Check with WFAA channel 8 ABC and they may have a transcript of the 23 Gallons not safe report at 187 micro-grams
            of Thimerosal that’s 50 % Mercury by weight.

            What factoids is all wrong?

          • Lawrence McNamara

            You do know the difference between Table Salt & Sodium, right? How about Table Salt & Chlorine?

            Which version of “mercury compounds” are you discussing? Because one is a benign compound and the other isn’t….I don’t think you do, do you?

          • White_and_Nerdy

            I believe that 99.9999% of parents care enough about their kids
            to fact-check your comments….and they can’t help but find that basically everything you posted here is false…and may of your falsehoods have been corrected over and over and over for more than a decade.

            Oh behalf of our children, thank you for making a mockery of
            the anti-vaccs intellectual capabilities and moral standards.

            Please, post as often as possible.

            W&N

          • ccdaddy

            My logic is, that when someone puts 160 times what the EPA considers as the standard for LQW of mercury in children you are going to have many outcomes. And we do.

          • Linda Tock

            Your logic is faulty. Using the water quality standards for a vaccine? Why?

            Do you drink vaccines?

            Are you recommended to drink 64 ounces of vaccines each day?

            Do you receive vaccines each day?

            No, no and no.

          • ccdaddy

            No body said water, Liquid Hazardous Waste.

            00.2 ppb are considered safe in water. 200 ppb are considered LQH and the children were given according to a Congressman Burton 7 vaccines containing Thimerosal at around 32,500 ppb at one AAP CDC pediatrician vaccine catch up visit.

            A reporter from Tx said 187 micro grams can fit on the head of a pin. I could put that in 23 gallons of water and it’s not safe for human consumption.

            And no! you don’t drink vaccines you inject them. It would be safer to drink them, because it would then go through the body’s filtering organs. As it is, the Junk is injected and the junk by passes the body’s filtering organs. And then it goes straight to targeting the organs of the body, in particular the brain and the lining around the brain.

            That per MSDS of Thimerosal it also says it is accumulative in the body.

          • Linda Tock

            Well, anyone trying to drink 23 gallons of water is a fool. More than 4 liters in an hour is lethal.

            But again – you’re trying to confuse the issue bringing up drinking water. The limits for drinking water are irrelevant for the use of thimerosal in a flu vaccine.

            You don’t understand the pharmacokinetics of mercury compounds. Over 95% of any ingested mercury compound is adsorbed through the GI tract, enters the bloodstream and is passed through the liver.

            This is not significantly different from thimerosal being injected via a vaccine, filtering into the bloodstream and then being passed through the liver. The liver metabolizes thimerosal to ethylmercury and a salicylate. Ethylmercury is water soluble and is excreted in the feces.

            A MSDS sheet is for folks who handle bulk supplies of chemicals, not for use with a 0.5 mL vaccine injection containing thimerosal.

          • ccdaddy

            You are wrong, Ingested goes through the filtering organs.

            Injected, by passes the bodies filtering organs and fast tracks to the brain.

            Here is were your going to look very misinformed, and lacking in intelligence. On the Manufacturer’s ( MSDS ), that’s the Manufacturer’s Materiel Safety Sheet which in layman’s terms = the characteristics of their product Thimerosal that was used in almost all of the children’s vaccines except. The MMR

            The following warning, proves by the manufacturer’s own words that Thimerosal crosses the Blood Brain Barrier.

            Otherwise, it could not target the Brain and the lining around the Brain.

            MSDS “Thimerosal is accumulative in the body, it targets the organs of the body, in particular the BRAIN and the lining around the BRAIN.

            You really, want to defend this Insanity?

            The FDA and the CDC let the cat out of the bag, with these emails that were obtained through the freedom of information act.

            FDA ” were afraid the public will perceive us asleep at the switch for decades,for allowing this dangerous compound to remain in the vaccines”

            FDA”and it’s no longer going to wash, that theirs no evidence of a risk”

            CDC “how could the FDA approve a preservative,without knowing how much Mercury it contained” He then said,

            “what else is lurking,we know nothing about”

            CDC “this was not rocket science,it was ninth grade math”

            Here’s the last two nails, in your arguments coffin.

            Neil Halsey, a very well known vaccinologist. Let it be known, when he was drawing a line in the sand on the Thimerosal in vaccines being a possible danger to the children. Neil Halsey s words were.

            From an excellent article,written by an excellent author of the NY Times Auther Allens article “the not so cracked pot theory”

            The F.D.A. team’s conclusions were frightening. Vaccines added under Halsey’s watch had tripled the dose of mercury that infants got in their first few months of life. As many as 30 million American children may have been exposed to mercury in excess of Environmental Protection Agency guidelines — levels of mercury that, in theory, could have killed enough brain cells to scramble thinking or hex behavior.

            My words, not part of the article. Since Thimerosal is a known IQ lowering neural toxic compound, the previous statement that said ” levels of mercury that, in theory, could have killed enough brain cells to scramble thinking or hex behavior” was an absolute possibility and a probability.

            Neil Halsey words;”My first reaction was simply disbelief, which was the reaction of almost everybody involved in vaccines,” Halsey says. ”In most vaccine containers, thimerosal is listed as a mercury derivative, a hundredth of a percent. And what I believed, and what everybody else believed, was that it was truly a trace, a biologically insignificant amount. My honest belief is that if the labels had had the mercury content in micrograms, this would have been uncovered years ago. But the fact is, no one did the calculation.”

            My words, not part of the article; this needs to be called out.

            ” the fact that this expert said this;

            But the fact is, no one did the calculation.”

            Making matters worse, the latest science on mercury damage suggested that even small amounts of organic mercury could do harm to the fetal brain. Some of the federal safety guidelines on mercury were relaxed in the 90′s, even as the amount of mercury that children received in vaccines increased. The more Halsey learned about these mercury studies, the more he worried.

            ”My first concern was that it would harm the credibility of the immunization program,” he says. ”But gradually it came home to me that maybe there was some real risk to the children.” Mercury was turning out to be like lead, which had been studied extensively in the homes of the Baltimore poor during Halsey’s tenure at Hopkins. ”As they got more sophisticated at testing for lead, the safe level marched down and down, and they continued to find subtle neurological impairment,” Halsey says. ”And that’s almost exactly what happened with mercury.”

            You can’t defend this stupidity,in the light of the evidence
            you look stupid trying.

          • Linda Tock

            I’d recommend you take a basic course in biology, ccdaddy.

            Anything which enters the bloodstream – be it from ingestion or injection, will be filtered through both the kidneys and the liver.

            Thimerosal is metabolized into ethylmercury and a salicylate. It does not remain in the body.

            The amount of thimerosal in a vaccine is less than the amount of methylmercury you obtain from eating fish.

            Random “quotes” without citations and references make you look desperate.

            It isn’t a pretty sight.

        • Science believer

          no but it came close like the 1918 influenza outbreak…
          http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

          • ccdaddy

            It wasn’t the Flu that killed so many, it was the fact you did not have anything to fight the pneumonia with.

  • mittendrin
  • zanjam

    I live in Marin and no longer vaccinate my children. My fantastic
    pediatric practice, Pediatric Alternatives in Mill Valley, has MDs who
    are also homeopaths along with an ND on staff. After my son was
    diagnosed with autism, I switched to this practice. They have families
    who choose to vaccinate along with many who do not. I spoke with our
    doctor after my son’s reaction and together we decided the best course
    of action was to not vaccinate either child anymore. Doctors need to
    take the time to study family history and help families weigh the
    benefits and risks of vaccinating FOR EACH CHILD AND FAMILY.

    • lilady R.N.

      And, if there is a vaccine-preventable disease outbreak in your child’s school your child will be barred from attending school.

      Make certain you tell parents with children too young to have been fully vaccinated and parents with children who have valid medical contraindications, that your child is not vaccinated and could infect their children.

      Don’t go “hiding in the herd” as Dr. Bob Sears directs parents to do and don’t be a “free rider” who depends on other parents vaccinating their children.

      • Cheryl

        How is the unvaccinated child going to infect the vaccinated child? If vaccines work as they say then that vaccinated child will NOT get the disease so why are you worried about them?

        • bpatient

          Cheryl, you expressed nothing in your post that cannot be explained by an introductory course in immunology. Please post again when you’re up to speed.

          • zanjam

            Why don’t you explain it, bpatient? Is it because the vaccines are not 100% percent effective? I’ve never taken a course on immunology so if you have an answer to her question I would love to hear it. Please, enlighten me. Thanks.

          • lilady R.N.

            Look just below your comment for my simple explanation.

            I suggest (if you can understand the science of immunology), that you check out CDC websites and the CDC Pink Book. You may find this section enlightening:

            http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/prinvac.pdf

          • zanjam

            So nasty, aren’t we? I was just asking for bpatient to explain it. To see what he/she had to say about it. Just a question. Because this is a question that comes up time and time again in this debate. Tell me how a vaccinated child is in danger of getting the disease he is vaccinated against. Legitimate question. And honestly, this is really a question that doesn’t need an answer. The sheer fact that you can get the disease you are supposedly vaccinated against is enough for me to not want to risk the side effects for something that is, quite possibly, 100% useless. Ruh roh!

          • lilady R.N.

            I was replying to Cheryl who posed the question to me zanjam.

            Cripes, you are unable to follow the comments on this blog…must be that your education was cut short for some reason.

            95 % (or more) of children who receive the first of the 2-dose MMR series after age one are immune. Following the second dose, which should be administered not less than 28 days after the first dose, 99 % of children are immune. Measles is highly transmissible; therefore the second of the 2-dose series is important to maintain herd immunity in the community.

            Measles immunity derived from the MMR vaccine is lifelong:

            http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/a-look-at-each-vaccine/mmr-measles-mumps-and-rubella-vaccine.html

            (Immunology 101, Virology 101, Epidemiology 101)

          • zanjam

            Right. I know those stats. So what you’re afraid of is the 1% of children who are vaccinated, ineffectively, will get said disease. Yes? I was just asking bpatient to explain, instead of insinuating everyone needs to take an introductory course on immunology and if they don’t they have no business asking questions. Just wanted to hear what the concern was. And you don’t need to be nasty. But, trolls are nasty.

          • lilady R.N.

            You ought to know how nasty trolls are, zanjam.

            BTW, What is your college degree, what professional licenses in any health care field do you possess and what is your work experience in any health care field?

          • zanjam

            I have taken my broken, shell of a child and repaired his health to a state, where, if he were to stand in front of you today, you would have no idea he had ever been diagnosed as moderately autistic. The hollow stares, screeching, gibberish, inability to speak real words, self-stimulating behaviors (flapping, spinning,etc), bolting, incessant tantrums that lasted hours on end (for years on end), gastrointestinal issues, no pretend play, no interacting with other children, lining up everything, obsession with trains, licking objects, dozens of other perseverative behaviors, sensory issues, blah, blah, blah…gone. Gone. I have committed my life to healing him, and now he is a thriving 11-year-old who just started middle school. He walks to school on his own, completely independent. He’s such a fantastic kid, who makes an impression on everyone he meets. He went to Warriors basketball camp this summer and is a sports nut. He watches Giants games and gives you the play-by-play, hoping he can one day be a sportscaster. He’s social, friendly, happy, smart, a great communicator and extremely healthy.

            He was kicked out of kindergarten (Wade Thomas) after being suspended nine times. I think we had six emergency IEPs in the six months we were at that school. They wanted to put him in a horrible, institution-like, non-public school. So we moved and wound up in the Dixie District. When he just “graduated” 5th grade, he was given the “Consistent Achiever Award”, which is given out to one boy and one girl from every 5th, 8th and 12th grade in the San Rafael and Dixie School Districts. This special boy, who was once so out of control that Ross Valley School District was willing to foot the bill for a non-public school for him, won an award for good citizenship and working to his highest academic potential. Who every year fell into the Below Basic category on STAR testing until this year where he was Advanced in language arts, math and science, and just one point short of Proficient in science.

            So while I don’t hold any professional licenses in any health care field, I have worked tirelessly and I have recovered my child from autism’s grasp, which is no small feat. I have spent the past 10 years of my life on this so while I didn’t get a degree, I certainly did get an education. And while you may not care that I had a great deal to do with transforming my child from a helpless, out of control, sensory mess into a thriving member of society, I do. I saved this child from a lifetime of taxpayer care, which in turn, affects us all.

          • lilady R.N.

            Hmmm, no degree, no licensing, no work experience and your anti-vaccine stance is because your sources are those notorious anti-vaccine, anti-science websites.

            Stop referring to your special needs child as “broken”, “out of control sensory mess”; it is demeaning and untrue.

            I’m giving you credit for helping your child to progress, but I don’t see that you give your son credit for that progress.

          • zanjam

            He was perfectly fine for the first 18 months of his life, and then, overnight, he wasn’t. Happy and bubbly, we went to Gymboree, swim class, Music Together, etc… all the great things that mommies love to do with their babies. Meeting milestones, perfect well baby check ups, the whole bit. Then, in the blink of an eye, our lives were turned into a living hell and it was near impossible to even leave the house. For years. So a broken, out of control, sensory mess is actually a very accurate description. Instead of criticizing my choice of wording, just be happy you didn’t have to live the nightmare that we did, and many people still do. We are extremely lucky that he responded to most every treatment and therapy we tried. I know plenty of people who have not been nearly as successful as we have.

            And thank you for the credit. It has been a literal fight for his life. He has been as much a warrior in this fight as me, and he will forever be my hero. You have no idea how much credit that child gets for fighting on, every step of the way. To say you don’t “see that I give him credit for his progress” is incredibly myopic, as well as offensive, since you don’t know anything about it, really.

            I’m done engaging with you about this. His recovery has put a strain on our entire family, depleted us of every penny we had and has exhausted us in every sense of the word. Which is precisely why I am not willing to risk vaccinating him again, for any reason. You can choose to believe that vaccines did not do this to my son. I, however, feel differently about it.

          • batty

            I’m sorry this happened to your son. But your son is alive. The ten infants dead of a single preventable disease in a single year in a single county are not. There is no way to definitively know whether or how much your son was affected by vaccines; the same cannot be said for the newborns. They died of confirmed pertussis. They died in an outbreak that was directly caused by people who chose not to vaccinate. Parents in your county who share your opinions as good as shot them with a gun.

            I know I am belaboring this point. But when children are dying, I don’t think there is too much of a risk of overstatement.

          • lilady R.N.

            And, you don’t know my history of advocacy. Dating back to 1976 when my second child was born with a rare genetic disorder, I started on my 37 year “career” of personal advocacy for my son and for all developmentally disabled children and adults.

            You really ought to study the history of advocacy on behalf of this population. A good start for you would be to read the Willowbrook Wars, authored by Sheila and David Rothman, which details the deplorable conditions in those large human warehouses. I worked diligently for years testifying at Federal, State and local hearings to deinstitutionalize those “developmental centers”…where regression not development was the rule. They were inhumane surroundings, where diseases maimed and killed kids and adults, they were dangerously understaffed and basic medical needs were not met.

            I also was part of a small coalition of parents who got a State law enacted to make certain that drivers and aides aboard school buses were fingerprinted and checked for criminal records. We had defenseless little kids aboard those buses who were being battered and subjected to vile sexual attacks by the predators who were found to have criminal records, and who were hired by independent school bus contractors.

            I attended advocacy conferences and I worked on budget committees to enhance services for the parents of severely and profoundly developmentally children and adults for in-home and out-of-home respite services for their beloved children. These parents whose devotion was nothing short of heroic, depended on advocates like me to shake lose money from Federal, State and local budgets for these paltry services.

            BTW., I wasn’t paid for my advocacy work…it was…and remains…a labor of love.

            You are fortunate that your child is healthy and thriving; I’d
            have given anything and everything in my possession to have had a child who could speak, who could walk, who didn’t have a seizure disorder and who didn’t have a bleeding disorder and who wasn’t immune suppressed…and who didn’t die nine years ago at age 28.

            While providing the intensive care that my child needed I also worked as a public health nurse clinician-epidemiologist for a large suburban County health department. I investigated individual cases, clusters and outbreaks of vaccine-preventable-diseases. I know only too well what anti-vaccine anti-science groups have done to spread Fear Uncertainty
            and Doubt about vaccines and the serious, sometimes deadly, diseases that vaccines prevent.

            Please don’t try to impress me with your parenting of your special needs child. You’d better stopping posting here, because you are only displaying your colossal ignorance of basic science and your utterly deplorable lack of knowledge of ASDs.

          • zanjam

            Human being to human being – I am terribly sorry to hear of the loss of your child. I can’t begin to know what that pain is, and I feel for anyone who has ever experienced that.

            Poster to poster – please, get off your high horse. You know nothing of me. I am the founder (and one of six board members) of an autism non-profit. Since 2005 we have raised over $1 million for various autism charities. I, too, have never been paid for my work. All volunteer, all labor of love. I am involved with many local autism groups as well. I know extremely well what advocacy means. I’m not quite sure why you would have any reason to make assertions that I don’t, or even why it would matter to you. Just looking to pick a fight, I guess.

            Buh bye, lilady. Have fun baiting someone else into arguments so you can have some fresh meat for the name-calling and insults. You’re a class act.

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Or you could look at the decades of data demonstrating that
            kids like yours were not fine…were not developing normally….and you might even want to look at say the Cedillo case and see how the anti-vaccs activity tried to suppress this fact and willfully deceived the Cedillos…

            “…depleted us of every penny…”

            The problem with you pursuing these questions is that you might decide you have been scammed…which while not a good feeling you would then be able to seek a l opinion about taking legal actions….you just might be able to sue and get your money back and more…

            W&N

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Glad your child is better. Glad that you have been so supportive.

            Remind us how are ASD’s categorized? Right, as developmental delays—not a developmental 100% stop.

            Do you know what the range of prognosis are for ASDs?

            Sounds like your child is in the high end of normal ASD
            development.

            W&N

        • lilady R.N.

          I am concerned about unvaccinated infants who are too young to have received their primary series of the vaccines on the Recommended Childhood Vaccine Schedule.

          I am concerned about children (and adults) who are immune compromise/immune suppressed and who cannot receive certain vaccines (MMR and Varicella vaccines).

          I am concerned for the children who have other valid medical contraindications against receiving a vaccine or vaccines, such as an allergy to an ingredient in those vaccines or a documented prior serious reaction to one or more vaccines.

          So now you understand why certain pediatricians are closing their practice to patients whose parents refuse to vaccinate their child(ren). Don’t you agree that other patients who are in the groups I mentioned above, should not be put at risk by parents who adamantly refuse vaccination for the kids, thus putting others at risk?

          Don’t forget that measles is highly transmissible to an unvaccinated child (90 % will contract the disease in an enclosed doctor’s waiting room). Don’t forget that pertussis can be a killer for a child under age one, who has not been fully immunized against the bacterium.

          I worked as a public health nurse clinician-epidemiologist investigating individual cases, clusters and outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases. I remember every child who was maimed, ever child who was left with lifelong neurological deficits, every child who had gangrenous limbs amputated…and every child who died needlessly…from these serious, sometimes deadly, vaccine-preventable diseases.

          • zanjam

            “I remember every child who was maimed, ever child who was left with lifelong neurological deficits, every child who had gangrenous limbs amputated…and every child who died needlessly…from these serious, sometimes deadly, vaccine-preventable diseases.”

            If you take out the part about gangrenous limbs, you could just as easily be talking about the damage that can be caused by vaccines. So why should I be FORCED to take that risk with my child? Vaccine side effects (including autism, brain damage and death) have been documented and paid out thru the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program to the tune of $2.5 billion!! And the people who have been paid are just a minute fraction of people who are actually injured by vaccines.

            And it’s so awesome because We, the People get to pay for these vaccine injuries. A $0.75 tax is added to every vaccine administered and put into the kitty so when someone does win their case and proves that they are vaccine-injured, they’re covered. Clean and neat, no need to get the vaccine manufacturers involved in all this mess.

            You use the argument that there are certain populations that should not be vaccinated (immune compromised, etc.) so the unvaxxed put them at risk. Children who have a long family history of auto-immune disorders, or children with mitochondrial disorder, say, are ALSO populations that should not be vaccinated! Or at least be given some serious consideration and vaccinated on a much safer schedule, if they choose to at all. But, hey…one size fits all!! We don’t have the time nor do we want to make the effort to delve into the family history of every child on the planet, nor do we want to test for pesky things like mitochondrial disorder or (heaven forbid!) natural immunity! Now where’s the profit in that?

            I once believed that people who didn’t vaccinate were scourges of the earth. I had my child in that doctor’s office at 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, etc. WITHOUT FAIL. Flu vaccines ran out and I waited in line for 2 hours outside Marin Health and Human Services with my 2-year-old and my infant, desperate for the vaccines. I was extremely pro-vax and thought that anyone who wasn’t was selfish, and their children were a danger to us all. But now that I know what I know about vaccines and the damage that they can cause (and have caused in my own family), I have a very different perspective.

          • lilady R.N.

            Just about every factoid, not fact, that you posted has been disproven by multiple studies.

            You “claim” you were once “pro-vaccine”, yet every one of your statements that you posted is directly out of the anti-vaccine playbook. You are full of yourself and full of it:

            http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

            How about ponying up some links to the Vaccine Court’s decisions that awarded damages for autism associated with the administration of a vaccine/multiple vaccines? I’m daring you to find those decisions because I have read every decision from the U.S. Court of Claim (Vaccine Court)…and no award was ever provided to a child whose parents claim their child’s autism was caused by autism.

            You “claim” that children with a mitochondrial disorder should not be vaccinated and I’m calling b.s. on your claim…and I’m calling b.s. on all those parents of autistics, their quack doctors and their “specialized laboratories” who find that mitochondrial disorders are common…and a prohibition to receiving childhood vaccines:

            http://my.clevelandclinic.org/multimedia/transcripts/parikh_understanding_mitochondrial_disorders.aspx

            Immunizations and Mitochondrial Disorders

            nervousmom: I have heard and read that immunizations can be harmful to children with mito disorders. My pediatrician still wants my child to have them. I am undecided. What are
            your thoughts?

            Speaker_-_Dr__Sumit_Parikh: There is no clear evidence that immunizations themselves hurt mitochondrial or metabolic patients.

            Medical stress (fever, dehydration, illness, revving up the
            immune-system) may bring-out or worsen metabolic disorders. Thus, there have been some patients where the fever after an immunization led to symptom onset or worsening. In these individuals – it was not directly the immunization that led to issues.

            We recommend that our patients receive immunizations. If they are sensitive to declining during medical stress – spacing out immunizations and tight fever-control may help (but this type of approach is not based in medical science and what physicians call ‘anecdotal experience’).”

            So show us your stuff “zanjam” by ponying up your evidence for all the “stuff” you attribute to vaccines

          • zanjam

            Ha! So now the fact that I used to be pro-vax but now I have changed my stance isn’t true, “lilady RN” ?

            Bailey Banks
            Hannah Poling

            Plenty of others

          • lilady R.N.

            Bailey Banks awarded damages for PDD-NOS

            Hannah Poling had a previously undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder and was awarded damaged for encephalitis and “autism-like behaviors”…not autism.

            http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/04/22/an-open-letter-to-jim-carrey/

          • zanjam

            If you’re ok with PDD-NOS and autism-like behaviors with your brain damage, then who am I to change your mind?

            And I was only making the point that billions have been paid out over the years for vaccine-induced brain damage, including autism. So as I said earlier, take the word autism out of the equation..I’m still not comfortable with encephalopathy and the silly word play that comes with it (resulting in autism-like behaviors.) I don’t want to risk brain damage, no matter how you slice it. But turns out there have been plenty of families compensated for brain damage with a side of autism.

            Let’s just agree to disagree, shall we?

            http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/83-cases-of-autism-associated-with-childhood-vaccine-injury-compensated-in-federal-vaccine-court-121570673.html

            http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&context=pelr

          • lilady R.N.

            No, I won’t “agree to disagree” when you brought up the Pace Law School EBCALA Study, zanjam.

            That study was conducted by Mary Holland and Lou Conte was listed as the “chief investigator”. Holland is an attorney and professor of law at NYU Law School…Conte is an ex-cop. Neither of them are qualified to conduct a study of this nature

            Holland did not seek IRB approval for the study from Pace Law School or from NYU Law School. If she had submitted the outline for the study to those two IRBs, approval would have been denied. You are aware, aren’t you, the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. who is fixated on Thimerosal preservatives as the cause of autism, is associated with Pace Law School, aren’t you.

            The EBCALA study was roundly condemned as just another anti-vaccine, anti-science bad PR move because Holland and Conte “managed” to confuse autism with autistic-like behaviors and other developmental disabilities:

            http://autism-news-beat.com/archives/1671

            So where are those cases you were going to produce that show awards from the Vaccine Court for “vaccine-induced-autism”? I’m still waiting.

          • zanjam

            Well, lilady, if you watched the video you would see that Dr. Sarah Bridges’ child was paid millions, due to his vaccine-induced autism and other developmental disabilities.

            And again, if you’re comfortable with vaccines causing brain damage, of any sort…then have at it. I’ll opt out. $2.5 billion in vaccine damage awards. $2.5 BILLION.

          • lilady R.N.

            Porter Bridges-Parlet was awarded damages under the Vaccine Court’s Table Injury Guidelines-Encephalopathy, not autism.

            There has never been an award from the Vaccine Court for “vaccine-induced autism”.

            Nice try, though.

          • zanjam

            Let me ask you this. Are you comfortable with vaccine reactions, which may include brain damage/encephalopathy, PDD-NOS, or autism-like symptoms? I didn’t come here to argue over wordplay. I came to make the claim that vaccines absolutely can and do cause brain damage. Not in everyone, but in some So if you get off the autism hangup for one minute, tell me – are you comfortable with that risk?

          • lilady R.N.

            zanjam: Excuse me…you’re the one who declared you have a child diagnosed with autism…not me.

            Excuse me…you’re the one who cited the bogus EBCALA study…not me.

            Excuse me…you’re the one who provided the names of children who you falsely “claim” were awarded damages from the Vaccine Court for autism…not me.

            Excuse me…you’re the one with the “autism hangup” (associated with vaccines)…not me.

            Don’t even go there with your accusations, that I am not empathetic to parents whose children have received awards from the Vaccine Court for real Table Injuries.

            Don’t even go there with your Strawman accusations that I have ever denied that vaccines, can and have, in extremely rare cases, injured children. (Serious adverse events occur on the order of 1:1,000,000 per dose…or less.)

            So which vaccine(s) do you claim caused your child’s autism?

          • White_and_Nerdy

            You could try reading how the vaccine court works:

            http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

            It is clear that families routinely get compensated for health issues that had nothing to do with vaccines.

            You could try reading the cases:
            http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/Abell.BANKS.02-0738V.pdf

            Banks: non-autistic developmental delay

            http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/CAMPBELL-SMITH.POLING041008.pdf

            Poling: encephalopathy.

            Bonus, the Court details how the government wanted to release the files and the Polings blocked this. And it details how the Polings lied to the court and how Kirby illegally posted the ruling….bet you can’t find one anti-vacc site that is honest about the case…

            There are lots of scientists that can explain to you how
            determine what are true vaccine reactions…if you are really interested.

            W&N

          • zanjam

            Again, you all can choose to be fine with the risks. I am not. Which is why I choose to not vaccinate anymore. Not sure where lilady’s comment went, but if you honestly believe that “Serious adverse events occur on the order of 1:1,000,000 per dose…or less” then great. I do not believe that statistic and even if true, still not willing to risk my child being that 1:1,000,000.

          • White_and_Nerdy

            The problem with your comment is that there are risks if you
            vaccinate and risks if you don’t vaccinate.

            Studies say that the risks of vaccinating are overwhelmingly
            lower than not vaccinating.

            And as far as I can tell, every single health care company/organization/system on the planet has had the same experience—people are healthier when they vaccinate.

            It is strange that you seem completely unconcerned that you
            were lied to about the courts compensating for vaccines causing autism….doesn’t it make you wonder what else the anti-vaccs lied to you about?

            W&N

          • batty

            10 babies dead of confirmed cases of pertussis in a single CA county vs kids with injuries and health problems whose numbers and causes are at the very least controversial. Vaccines possibly, but not likely, caused some percentage of autism. The pertussis epidemic, which was absolutely caused by a decline in vaccination, absolutely did kill those infants.

          • zanjam

            10 in all of California in 2010. Not that anyone wants children dying, but that stat is inaccurate.

          • batty

            Oh. Well, that’s just fine then. To make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs, I guess.

          • batty

            I said this above. Newborns can’t receive the pertussis vaccine. Pertussis is usually fatal in newborns. People infected with pertussis are contagious for as many as ten days before exhibiting symptoms. Ten babies died in Marin county in 2010. If you are comfortable with the odds that your child might kill an infant or an immunosuppressive person versus the odds that he might be injured by a vaccine…well, I can’t think of anything to say to you.

          • batty

            1. Newborns cannot receive the pertussis vaccine.
            2. Pertussis is usually fatal in newborns.
            3. A person infected with pertussis is contagious for as many as 10 days before exhibiting symptoms.
            Do the math, and then tell me this only affects the unvaccinated kids.

  • zanjam

    “No other studies have found a link between vaccines and autism.”

    This is simply not true. Here are 70+ studies you can peruse and decide just how non-linked vaccines and autism are:

    http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2007/06/no-evidence-of-any-link.html

    • Liz Ditz

      Zanjam, have you read any of those studies? Can you tell me how each supports your claim?

  • ccdaddy

    From the Simpsonwood meeting, where the CDC AAP FDA and the vaccine makers went to discuss the study that proved Vaccines were causing Autism.

    Below is an excerpt of the author Dr.Verstraeten of the study that they met to discuss and handle his findings.

    Dr. Verstraeten: Page 162: ” When I saw this, and I went back through the literature, I was actually stunned by what I saw because I thought it is plausible. First of all there is the Faeroe study, which I think people have dismissed too easily, and there is a new article in the same Journal that was presented here, the Journal of Pediatrics, where they have looked at PCB. They have looked at other contaminants in seafood and they have adjusted for that, and still mercury comes out.

    Dr. Koller, pg. 192: “…As you increase the vaccination, you increase effects, but you don’t know. You have modified live viruses. You have different antigens. There is a lot of things in those vaccinations other than mercury, and we don’t know whether this is a vaccination effect or a mercury effect. But I am almost sure it is not a mercury effect. Positive as a matter of fact, and there are several experts particularly that have reviewed this, the methylmercury aspect who would agree with that due to dose response.”

    As you increase the vaccination, you increase effects, but you don’t know. You have modified live viruses. You have different antigens. There is a lot of things in those vaccinations other than mercury.

    I love this, and it makes me wonder was he receiving funding from Thimerosal makers. He appears to be gung-ho for Thimerosal while throwing the rest of
    the vaccine ingredients under the bus.

    They were there, to discuss what they consider low. 62 .5 micro-grams by 6 mos.
    But, even at that amount they were in trouble. Because 2.00 was legal and they
    were at 2.48 times risk. .48 over legal, of 2.00 they knew was link established.

    In real life, children get way more. In fact 7 vaccines that contain Mercury that is
    162.5 at one ped visit. So his assertion, that there’s not a dose big enough for a
    dose response. Is obliterated by real life, Vaccine schedules. So even the bad they tried to hide, was now made much much worse by just calculating real life amounts given to our children.

    Add 2 flu vaccines, in a pregnant woman and amount is now 212.5. Although, one might ask if pregnant. Why they would give you a Thimerosal containing flu shot.
    When the Manufacturers, Material Safety Data Sheet states plainly.That, pregnant
    are not ever supposed to be even exposed to it.

    From the MSDS of the vaccine preservative Thimerosal.

    “Pregnant women are never supposed to be exposed to Thimerosal,for it can cross the placenta and go into the baby and cause mild to severe mental retardation”

    Add 2 Rogam vaccines and that is now 262.5. If 62.5 micro grams by 6 mos is 2.48 times risk for Autism. What is 262.5 by the same 6 mos. ???

    The mass poisoning, of American children and the main culprit responsible for the Autism epidemic.

    Also, the NIH paid study done by Dr. Burbacher on baby primates found that Thimerosal crosses the blood brain barrier easier than does the fish mercury. And after it enters the brain, it turns into Inorganic Mercury at 2.5 times that as does the fish mercury.

    The most damaging to the Mitochondria is Inorganic Mercury first and then MSG. Both, of which are in children’s vaccines.

  • ccdaddy

    This was my answer, to someone on an article that said you just don’t understand basic science.

    Basic science,Hm! 200 ppb is considered Liquid Hazardous Waste of mercury according to the EPA.

    Lets put that into perspective 9 vaccines with 7 containing mercury is 32,500 ppb all given at one Ped visit. That’s 160 times what the EPA says is LHW of Mercury. And you say, I cannot understand basic science?????. An IDIOT can figure out, that 160 times LHW of mercury never belonged in children’s vaccines.

    Dr. Neil Halsey said, Truth is no one ever bothered calculating the Mercury.

    Dr Neil Halsey, of Johns Hopkins University is a immunologist for children’s vaccines.

    Dr Halsey was in an article called, “the not so crack pot theory”
    He was the first to draw attention, to the dangers posed by Thimerosal. So why is he not getting, the same treatment as Dr Wakefield? Because after he said what he said,
    he was threatened into recanting his words. Dr. Wakefield had stood his ground, and decided the health ofthe children is what mattered most. Dr.Neil Halsey, even knowing that children were being destroyed by the Thimerosal caved in the face of loosing everything.

    It appears the FDA and the CDC quietly in FOIA internal emails agreed with Dr. Halseys first account of the damage being done.

    Thimerosal Bad!

    CDC
    “how could the FDA approve a preservative,without knowing how much Mercury it contained. He then says “what else is lurking, we know we know nothing about”

    CDC
    “this was not rocket science, this was ninth grade math”

    He’s got the right idea,but in the state of Tx it was 1st grade math he is accusing them of not being able to perform.

    FDA
    “were afraid the public,will perceive us asleep at the switch for decades, for allowing this dangerous compound to remain in the vaccines”

    Considering that the FDA had helped removed it from pet vaccines in 1990,(because it was causing Neurological damage in dogs) To say that they were asleep at the switch for decades, that’s sugar coating it. Considering the fact, they left it in children’s vaccines till 2002 with an expiration date of 2004 after removing it from dogs. I am, speechless.

    This email was read in a congressional hearing by Congressman Burton.

    FDA
    “and it’s no longer going to wash, that there’s no evidence of a risk” He was getting worried, the science was snow balling up against them. He was right!

    FDA / CDC not sure.
    “maybe we should treat this like the Tylenol poisonings” “admit that it happened, pull it from the market, and then show contrition”

    They didn’t, they decided to lie instead.

    You see, It was cheaper and more convenient. And a hell of a lot less embarrassing, than admitting they had poisoned an entire generation of kids. American kids, that they were charged and took an oath to protect.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      Actually, which vaccines on the US Pediatric Schedule are still utilized that include Thimerosal or don’t have Thimerosa-free versions?

    • White_and_Nerdy

      Well…I understand that…scientists have been pointing out since
      the 1990s how the anti-vaccs misrepresent the levels of mercury in vaccines…and that the post-vaccine levels of mercury are safe even in preterm infants….and that you have zero interest in the facts…

      W&N

    • Lawrence McNamara

      So, CCdaddy – going to answer the question? Which pediatric vaccines still contain Thimerasol? And of those, which ones don’t have a Thimerasol-free version (and in fact, is mandated as thimerasol-free in some states?)

      You’re obsession with Thimerasol is about 13 years out of date…..and the evidence isn’t there to support even the original contention – hence:

      http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

  • A conflicted scientist

    “We documented here the evidence of the potential of the HPV vaccine to trigger a life-disabling autoimmune condition. The increasing number of similar reports of post HPV vaccine-linked autoimmunity and the uncertainty of long-term clinical benefits of HPV vaccination are a matter of public health that warrants further rigorous inquiry.”http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23902317

  • Pie New

    Beware of the anti-vaccination “expert”. This quotation form a UK doctor who has gone the way of homeopathy. They are ignoring germ theory AND evolution (and don’t be a dumb-arse and say they are only theories, it’s science):

    “I regard susceptibility [to infection] as the positive ability to acquire infectious diseases as a way of supporting health. In my experience, children become susceptible to appropriate infectious diseases at an acceptable age, when they need to learn what to do with their immune system and when they need a clean out. On the other hand, I find that adults become susceptible to infectious diseases when they are exhausted and need a rest! If you don’t have a rest when you need it, nature will make it so that you can’t stand up and have to rest, no matter what your work or family commitments – nature does not regard anyone as indispensable”

    This is patently dangerous nonsense and insulting to every parent who has lost a child to measles, mumps, whooping cough, rubella, small pox, polio. Those babies must have been filthy to require that nature kill them in order to clean them out!

  • Jens_disqussion

    Please ask your representative to support research comparing the health of never-vaccinated populations (a true control group never used in vaccine research) and our fully vaccinated children.

    After 1986, the infant vaccine schedule expanded rapidly when unconstitutional legislation essentially removed right to trial for the vaccine injured and now infants get more vaccines by six months of age than most adults in my generation did by college. All, with no safety research in place regarding the impact of the schedule overall, but we’ve seen a corresponding rise in learning disabilities, and immune disorders in our children and youth. The only science reported in the media regarding autism and vaccines is essentially tobacco science, epidemiology that cannot prove a negative and which is generally designed to fail to answer the question. Overall, other research methodology supports the autism vaccine link, particularly a link with heavy metals (suggested google Sorting out the spinning of autism; also autism and the immune system).

    So why, when around 1986 with a less aggressive schedule manufacturers were threatening to leave the market without liability protection from vaccine injury, is everything now perfectly fine with a schedule that in 1990s gave infants hundreds of times mercury exposure above some safety guidelines (no one thought to check the levels–doesn’t that say something about the state of vaccine safety in the U.S.) and still recommends up to a thousand of times above guidelines for aluminum exposure (plus “less” mercury through flu vaccine prenatal and postnatal). And those are just two inadequately tested vaccine components.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      If the anti-vaccine folks would just do a bit of research, they would see that the data they are looking for does exist:

      http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

      • Jens_disqussion

        As far as I can tell, there is no never-vaccinated group used for any comparison in this list of research findings. Note: “non-vaccinated” and “unvaccinated” is used only in regards to the vaccine under study and not the group’s overall vaccine exposure history

        • Lawrence McNamara

          @Jen – I’m waiting for you to repeat the lie that the Amish don’t vaccinate….perhaps you’d also like to do some research related to the Tuskegee Study as well….not to mention the various means by which vaccines are regulated, tested and tracked.

          http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccine_monitoring/

        • White_and_Nerdy

          Here is an example of a study with 100% unvaccinated kids:

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21412506

          If you are really interested in the science, there are many
          statisticians that can explain how the anti-vacc criticisms of the experimental designs (e.g. proper controls) are entirely wrong.

          Or you can use Google to see that basically everything you
          posted above is false.

          W&N

          • zanjam

            “The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in
            children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status.”
            Really? I think the woman was angling for a vax/non-vax study that refers to the “health” of these children in terms of autism or not. But jens, correct me if I’m wrong. And even if that’s not what she was after. I’m telling you, it HASN’T BEEN DONE.

          • White_and_Nerdy

            OK,

            Well that isn’t what her first posting above seems to say…but
            no matter….try reading this:

            http://www.scribd.com/doc/2887572/Simpsonwood-Transcript20Searchable

            Using the numbering at the page bottoms:

            Page 34: sample size of 110,000 US kids

            Page 35: controls—kids that had received ZERO vaccines

            Page 44: autism results—no difference in autism for vaccinated kids vs. kids that received zero vaccines

            Surprise!

            W&N

      • ccdaddy

        You are absolutely wrong, I done my research on behalf of my son.

        These Idiots, have left a paper trail miles long, And the aftermath of their incompetence is huge,and it will be being paid for decades and decades.

        Mr. McNamara, does Thimerosal cross the BBB easier than does the fish mercury?

        Is there a warning, to not mix Thimerosal with Aluminum in the MSDS.

        Is there Aluminum, in children’s vaccines as a catalyst?

        Can you think of any kind of reason, those responsible for vaccine safety have for ignoring that warning.

        What happens, when you mix Mercury and Aluminum?

        What is the synergy effect increase, of the two salts mixed?

        If, the Manufacturer materiel safety data sheet of Thimerosal states to never expose pregnant women to it.

        For, it can cross the placenta and go into the baby and cause mild to severe mental retardation.

        Why did the CDC, push flu vaccines in pregnant women. Knowing that.

        If those at the Simpsonwood meeting said, you would never want to go any earlier with the Thimerosal for if you did you will most certainly get more outcomes.

        Why, with a warning like that and the Manufacturers crystal clear warning. would you ever put Thimerosal in a pregnant woman?

        If the CDC said, when Katrina hit and they found the trailers they bought for misplaced residents. They had formaldehyde in them causing respiratory problems in children. The CDC had a press conference, and said to the public. There’s absolutely, no safe levels. What soever of Formaldehyde.

        Can we take them at their word? No safe levels?

        Is Formaldehyde in children;s vaccines.

        • White_and_Nerdy

          Most people understand that since you systematically misrepresent the facts, you are in fact doing a grave disservice to your son.

          http://www.chemblink.com/MSDS/MSDSFiles/54-64-8_Sigma-Aldrich.pdf

          W&N

        • Desserrae

          @ccdaddy. I am 100% willing to risk my daughter getting Autism and having to learn how to manage that disorder, if it means that she won’t get Polio (which my father has), or measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough etc. and be disabled, paralyzed, or die. I’m confident in my bet as the risks of vaccine/autism links have been discredited time and again and even if there is a shred of facts that are somehow proven to be true in the future, then still, my child won’t be paralyzed or die from the diseases I have had her vaccinated against.

  • Cheryl D

    How are children in danger of contracting disease if they have had the vaccine? It is the kids who are not vaccinated and their parents are making a conscious choice not to vaccinate. I would think all the pro vaccine folks would be happy that all the “idiots out there who don’t vaccinate” will be wiped off the face of the earth so that only the “smart” (read vaccinated ones) are left. If you are vaccinated why are you worried about those who are not?

    • bpatient

      You might find a basic immunology course instructive.

      • lilady R.N.

        A basic course in epidemiology might be helpful, as well.

        • ccdaddy

          According to the report given to Congress by the NIEHS on the science the CDC had on vaccines as a cause for Autism. The large, population Epidemiological study’s were full of design flaws rendering them en effect useless. The Head of the NIEHS said, but as bad as those study’s were, they were an improvement over the other two the Denmark study’s.

          So, now you have useless and worse than useless. The CDC Dir.was asked to defend her study’s by the Congress. Her answer,is astounding as well as very disturbing.And it proves the CDC Dir. never really had any real science. And that is what is reflected in the Simpsonwood meeting minutes.

          Example; Dr. Brent: Page 229: “The medical legal findings in this study, causal or not, are horrendous and therefore, it is important that the suggested epidemiological, pharmacokinetic, and animal studies be performed. If an allegation was made that a child’s neurobehavioral findings were caused by Thimerosal containing vaccines, you could readily find a junk scientist who would support the claim with “a reasonable degree of certainty”. But you will not find a scientist with any integrity who would say the reverse with the data that is available. And that is true. So we are in a bad position from the standpoint of defending any lawsuits if they were initiated and I am concerned.”

          If your worried about losing lawsuit’s,that’s a good sign that your science is junk! Whats amazing is, that all those met
          at Simpsonwood to conspire against vaccine damaged American children. That’s a solid example of Treason!

          I’m assuming you can comprehend,what you read. Let this soak in.

          “But you will not find a scientist with any integrity who would say the reverse with the data that is available. And that is true”

          It appears you all have been duped, by faked junk science.

          You see up to that point, they were bragging the science proves vaccines are safe. And they most certainly, don’t cause Autism. It appears lies, flow from those in vaccine safety like silk.

          It appears they have no problem with lying straight faced without flinching. That’s called a sociopath,it is a person without a conscience. I assure you,that those who have poisoned the children. Can’t! possibly, have a conscience.

          Their position, is a lie that’s completely gone out of control.
          They in the beginning believed,they needed to lie to save a
          program that has done so much good. Now, it’s become a pride thing that’s built solely on a lie.

          FYI epidemiology studies cannot be used alone in the US. to prove or disprove causality.

          I assume since the IOM had ruled in 2002 that the link was biologically plausible. That they, had the good biological
          study’s to come to that conclusion. So, why did the CDC
          tell the IOM to pay very little attention. To the biological
          evidence, and to put all their confidence in the large VSD based population based epidemiological study’s.

          But it appears, by the CDC Dir. words that the studies the CDC told the IOM to trust and to put all their confidence in. Were useless. For the Dir. words, before she vacates to go to Merck were that the CDC concurs to the findings of the NIEHS on environmental. And the VSD, will no longer be used for looking at environment as a cause for Autism.

          For to so, she the Dir. of the CDC said would be potentially
          misleading. So she is admitting, that for the 10 yr’s she has been the Dir. of the CDC. That she has been relying on study’s that were useless! So all the words coming from the
          Vaccine court, from special master Hastings. Was based on junk study’s

          Special Master Hastings of the NVICP the Congressional
          created program that was created to compensate American
          vaccine damaged children. His words on the three test cases was that “the science was so overwhelming against
          the parents, that we had no choice but to rule against the parents”

          What science would that be, special master Hastings.

          The en effect useless, or the worse than useless from Denmark. Where the lead author of the study’s has
          been indicted here in the US. on 22 counts of fraud.

          So the three test cases were won, by fraudulent CDC bought and paid for junk studies.

          The GAO’s office was evidently going to investigate the NVICP. In a letter from the NVICP to the GAO’s office we
          get the reason that they are not paying for the damage they have done with their vaccine program.

          The letter says “we have won three test cases, but there is 5000 more pending and we only have 2 billion dollars in the fund.

          The GAO’s office dropped the investigation.

          The Dir. of the CDC’s last words to the Congresses Powerful House Appropriations committee were. Astounding, and as I said. Very disturbing.

          “but if you do give us more time, we will do good quality study’s”

          You can’t defend this, so don’t try you will just look stupid.

          BTW, the Tax payers have been stuck with those 5000 and more! to pay for their life long care.

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Surprise,

            You didn’t provide the primary reference….come to think of
            it you never do in your postings….

            Here it is:
            http://evidenceofharm.com/VaccineDataLinkReporttoCongressFinal.pdf

            Typical anti-vaccs.

            (1) Scientifically illiterate….can’t even understand what the different types of studies are…

            (2) Functionally illiterate….the report found the studies to be very good and recommended additional
            follow-up studies…

            And after more than 5 years of their falsehoods being
            pointed out, it is clear that the anti-vaccs have zero interest in being truthful.

            W&N

        • ccdaddy

          ’91 Memo Warned of Mercury in Shots – Los Angeles Times

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Why don’t you post the actual memo so readers here can see
            what it truly says?

            W&N

      • ccdaddy

        You mean a Brain washing course!

        • White_and_Nerdy

          No surprise that you advocate ignorance.

          Good news: almost all parents care enough about their children to want to get the science correct…then there are the anti-vaccs.

          W&N

        • Lawrence McNamara

          Glad to see you are such an opponent of real Science, logic and rationality – it explains your obsession with conspiracy….

    • White_and_Nerdy

      I don’t think there is any point in calling folks idiots….it is just very sad that there are adults that can’t understand percentages…even when their own child’s health is at stake…

      W&N

  • Twylaa

    @ Anne Dachel
    You go, girl!!

    • lilady R.N.

      And you go Twyla. Care to divulge to us which vaccine(s) caused your child’s autism, Twyla?

    • White_and_Nerdy

      Agreed,

      She has done a great job of demonstrating that anyone with a
      middle-school education and the integrity to look….can’t honestly believe Age
      of Autism…

      W&N

  • Vacunas Autismo

    If your child gets an infection you will be held responsible and mostly it will clear without complications. But if a vaccine hurts your child then (1) the damage will be denied, (2) you may be accused of “shaking your baby” and jailed for life, (3) the injury will be life-changing (unpredictable autoimmune diseases) or even incapacitating (Guillain Barre paralysis) (4) if your case is one of the few that get recognized, you’ll be compensated with tax money, not industry money….

  • Vacunas Autismo

    Look Joseph, vaccine induced antibodies wane after 2 to 12 years for most vaccines. By the age of 30 most adults have lost “protection” (if they had any), so they become exposed to those illnesses again. This means our society has NEVER had more than 30% of its population “protected” at any given time. Now the vaccine pushers predict horrible epidemics if the protection rate is lees than 85% because herd-immunity would be lost. Well, there has never been more then 30% … where are the predicted epidemics then? Obviously, there are factors at play more determinant to good public health than vaccines.

    • lilady R.N.

      Show us which “vaccine-induced antibodies wane after 2-12 years”, by ponying up studies published in peer-reviewed first tier science and medical journals.

      You do realize, don’t you, that vaccines are monitored constantly, post-licensing, for signs of waning immunity after completion of the prescribed series?

      How about discussing the hepatitis B vaccine, which has been used for 35 years during clinical trials and for general use? I’ll be waiting for your links.

      • Vacunas Autismo

        Let’s tale pertussis: “A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates
        that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after
        4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12
        years.” SO NO FREAKING HERD IMMUNITY EVER ACHIEVED, SCAMMERS http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15876927

        • lilady R.N.

          No. You made the statement that “vaccine-induced antibodies wane after 2-12 years for most vaccines” and other nonsensical not-base-in-science ignorant statements about waning immunity.

          Do tell us about the waning immunity for people who have received the full hepatitis B vaccine series and the waning immunity for people who have received measles and rubella vaccines. Make certain that you can tell us about anamnestic responses for these viruses.

          You provided a link to a published paper, but failed to provide a link to this website that describes the eightfold risk of becoming infected with pertussis for children who have never been immunized against pertussis-versus-the risk of infection in a child who never received DTaP vaccine. You failed to explain that DTaP vaccine even if the immunity is waning, has proven to be preventive against a serious case of pertussis…as well as the booster Tdap booster vaccine now recommended for children entering 7th grade. Tdap booster is now recommended for all pregnant women and any adult who will have close contact with an infant under one year of age, for all health care workers and for all adults.

          I’ll be waiting for your explanation about waning immunity for the hepatitis B, measles and rubella vaccines, along with your explanation of the human anamnestic response.

        • White_and_Nerdy

          Here is your reference:
          http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Fulltext/2005/05001/Duration_of_Immunity_Against_Pertussis_After.11.as

          Well look at that….the document how herd immunity to pertussis occurs with the vaccine….they reference decades of data from a number of different countries where her immunity from the pertussis vaccine was demonstrated.

          Typical anti-vacc: what they lack in literacy they make up for with yelling names at people.

          W&N

    • White_and_Nerdy

      So you don’t understand how to measure immunity and you
      decided to argue by assertion rather than to bother getting the facts….not
      really surprising that your comments are wrong…

      W&N

      • Vacunas Autismo

        Nobody freaking knows: “…It is known that, in many instances, antigen-specific antibody titers do not correlate with protection.
        In addition, very little is known on parameters of cell-mediated
        immunity which could be considered as surrogates of protection….immunological correlates of protection are largely unknown for many infectious diseases… the immunological mechanisms of vaccine-induced protection remain unknown… whenever correlates of protection have been proposed, they only refer to serum antibody titers… it is crucial to extend studies in the attempt to define correlates of protection for the most important vaccine targets… “ http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X01002882

        • White_and_Nerdy

          Well…you certainly don’t know….you don’t even understand the
          difference between immunity and a correlate of immunity.

          The real question is why you don’t make any attempt to
          understand before posting…

          W&N

  • Vacunas Autismo

    When denying any autism-vaccine link vaccine-pushers refer to Wakefield 1998. We’re in 2013, dear friend! dozens of papers have been published showing links between autism and vaccines, papers totally ignored by the Wakefield-wielding zealots as if they didn’t exist. Some examples: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1047279709002075 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159

    • Lawrence McNamara

      Published by someone with a Degree in Economics? Um, yeah…..

      Not so much:

      http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/12/26/some-post-holiday-antivaccine-science/

      • Guest

        As long as you can’t counter his arguments his particular degree is of no concern.

        • Lawrence McNamara

          Actually, I can counter his arguments. He is using a statistical method on unreliable data. VAERS is merely a passive reporting system with no listed follow-up or corrections. Until it was noticed, there was a report that a child had turned into the Incredible Hulk after receiving the vaccine….if you read the disclaimer on VAERS, it directly states although all serious reactions are investigated, the results are not reflected…meaning, the Gardisil reactions that include the death of a Girl who was the passenger i a car accident (exactly how is that the result of the vaccine?) is still there & included in this “statistical” analysis.

          You can use the best analysis on the planet, but if you’re applying it to “bad or incomplete” data, you’ve literally become the definition of “Garbage in / Garbage out” So yes, his degree and process is irrelevant based on his use of bad data.

          • Lawrence McNamara

            Evidence has also shown that litigating attorneys have been using VAERS to drum up business – including inflating the total number of reports to make the linkage appear legitimate…..

          • Vacunas Autismo

            As if vaccine manufacturers had not been manipulating studies to drum up business. Conclussions of Cochrane Colaboration: “… WARNING: This review includes 15 out of 36 trials funded by industry (four had no funding declaration). An earlier systematic review of 274 influenza vaccine studies published up to 2007 found industry funded studies were published in more prestigious journals and cited more than other studies independently from methodological quality and size. Studies funded from public sources were significantly less likely to report conclusions favorable to the vaccines. The review showed that reliable evidence on influenza vaccines is thin but there is evidence of widespread manipulation of conclusions and spurious notoriety of the studies…” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20614424

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Did you think about this at all before posting?

            Thanks,
            W&N

          • Vacunas Autismo

            “..He is using a statistical method on unreliable data. VAERS is merely a passive reporting system….” This means the data actually UNDERESTIMATES the real incidence of vaccine-ralated autism, because only a minority ever get reported.

          • Lawrence McNamara

            @Vacunas – no, it means that the vast majority of “minor” reactions are not reported…..would you file a report for “soreness at the injection site?”

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Passive systems like VAERS underestimate and overestimate
            events.

            Strange how no matter how many years go by the anti-vaccs
            never post the relevant safety data….like from active systems….

            Just another reminder that the anti-vaccs true agenda is criticizing
            vaccines…not our children’s health.

            W&N

      • Vacunas Autismo

        Since the vaccine-autism link he establishes is statistic, his degree is more relevant than any medical degree. Just try and counter it if you can.

        • White_and_Nerdy

          OK,
          This is too easy.

          Her analysis is completely wrong.

          She is trying to analyze autism prevalence….but she doesn’t
          use autism data….etc, etc…

          Strange thing is that some people think that if they refuse
          to listen to qualified scientists….the facts somehow change…

          W&N

  • Angry at Ignorance

    My kid was hurt by the MMR vaccine. And, maybe 9,000 people got whooping cough in 2010. Both the disease and the very crude (we don’t even know if it really works since the keep adding boosters) cure hurt our children. What should we do? Maybe we should do some safety studies on the vaccines? Any pro-vaccine person out there want to show me a real safety study? It should be double blind, meaning that 1/2 the primates (since we can’t use humans) are vaccinated and 1/2 aren’t. The primates should be of equivalent developmental age to our kids brains and of equal health. There should be a sufficient number of these primates in the study and they should keep them alive for years to study their development. Then a team of people who don’t know vaccinated versus unvaccinated should observe them. They should record the data and then have their peers review this data. Show me this study!!! I only know of one large study like this. Everyone go find it and see what the conclusion is on it. Hint: The primates are still being studied at the University of Pittsburgh primate center. The first paper was written on the Hep B vaccine. Oh, and they did MRIs of the primates brains before and after the shots (which were the primate titrated equivalents to the human shots rather than just an antigen injected into a primate’s brain and then he was killed). That is the only study coming close to a safety study on vaccines. No other study exists. So, disease are deadly. So are the vaccines. Look at VAERS, which only reports 10% of the vaccine injuries and deaths that actually occur.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      Great – let’s find tens of thousands of primates, put them through this program – purposely expose them to diseases that will kill a certain fraction of them, disable a certain additional fraction, then at the end of the day, euthanize them after the study is complete – since that is standard procedure……wonderful.

      Not to mention that primates don’t equate well to humans in this instance….you obviously no nothing about medical ethics.

      As to what you would like to do compared to a human study – you might want to take a look at the Tuskegee Study – because that is what you are asking to be replicated.

      • ccdaddy

        Primates use to, before the CDC found that the primate studies were against them. Now, they are just not compatible.

        • Lawrence McNamara

          Hmmmm….one primate study, that was incredibly botched and misinterpreted……not a real good start there.

    • ccdaddy

      It’s not ignorance. It’s plain Evil!!!!!

      • White_and_Nerdy

        I think the courts got it correct when they characterized the anti-vaccs that claim vaccines cause autism as lying to get money….not that it really matters….as the postings here demonstrate, no one that has made it through middle-school could honestly believe the anti-vaccs…

        W&N

    • White_and_Nerdy

      Do you mean this fraudulent anti-vacc work?
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19800915

      Yup, the anti-vaccs are shameless and completely indifferent
      to our children’s health.

      There are many, many qualified statisticians that can explain to you the correct ways to determine vaccine safety….you just won’t find this information from the anti-vaccs.

      W&N

    • Lawrence McNamara

      @AAI – actually, the under-reporting has been linked to those mild reactions (like soreness at the injection site or a slight fever) that aren’t really even noticeable to be reported…..a study on the actual linkage between reports & legitimate reactions to vaccines found that only a very small number of reports could be directly attributed to vaccines.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23063829

      Only 3% of cases examined during this study could be shown to be a direct result of vaccines received…the majority of those were still only mild reactions & not serious.

      Once again, the anti-vax folks like to blow this all out of proportion to try to show “danger” when in fact, the system works & vaccines are still extremely safe, very effective, and certainly magnitudes better than the diseases they prevent.

  • ccdaddy

    You are absolutely wrong, I done my research on behalf of my son.

    These Idiots, have left a paper trail miles long, And the aftermath of their incompetence is huge,and it will be being paid for decades and decades.

    Mr. McNamara, does Thimerosal cross the BBB easier than does the fish mercury?

    Is there a warning, to not mix Thimerosal with Aluminum in the MSDS.

    Is there Aluminum, in children’s vaccines as a catalyst?

    Can you think of any kind of reason, those responsible for vaccine safety have for ignoring that warning.

    What happens, when you mix Mercury and Aluminum?

    What is the synergy effect increase, of the two salts mixed?

    If, the Manufacturer materiel safety data sheet of Thimerosal states to never expose pregnant women to it.

    For, it can cross the placenta and go into the baby and cause mild to severe mental retardation.

    Why did the CDC, push flu vaccines in pregnant women. Knowing that.

    If those at the Simpsonwood meeting said, you would never want to go any earlier with the Thimerosal for if you did you will most certainly get more outcomes.

    Why, with a warning like that and the Manufacturers crystal clear warning. would you ever put Thimerosal in a pregnant woman?

    If the CDC said, when Katrina hit and they found the trailers they bought for misplaced residents. They had formaldehyde in them causing respiratory problems in children. The CDC had a press conference, and said to the public. There’s absolutely, no safe levels. What soever of Formaldehyde.

    Can we take them at their word? No safe levels?

    Is Formaldehyde in children;s vaccines.

    If you done your research ,you should be able to answer all that.

    • White_and_Nerdy

      Typical anti-vacc…just name calling and falsehoods…

      Fortunately most people are willing to fact-check:
      http://www.chemblink.com/MSDS/MSDSFiles/54-64-8_Sigma-Aldrich.pdf

      W&N

      • Lawrence McNamara

        W&N – I also heartily recommend that people visit:

        http://antiantivax.flurf.net/

        It addresses the typical anti-vax talking points & shows how they are lies, misrepresentations and misinterpretations of data…..

    • Lawrence McNamara

      Formaldehyde is a natural byproduct of the human metabolic process – at any given moment, you have more formaldehyde circulating in your body than what is contained in all vaccines given to an individual combined…..so, what is your point again?

      Also, I see no actual evidence to support any of your contentions above – just a bunch of baseless assertions that you think mean something, but actually don’t.

  • ccdaddy

    I’m waiting McNamara, for your answers.

  • ccdaddy

    W&Dirty lies for a living,notice that McNamara cannot answer the questions that make vaccinating insane with the current program and schedule.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      Actually, I’m waiting for you to post anything that even looks like evidence to support any of your assertions below…..asking questions like you’ve done would be like me asking you “when did you stop beating your wife?”

      Since you’ve provide no scientific evidence at all.

      • Lawrence McNamara

        And I’ll reiterate the real evidence (or at least a chunk of it):

        http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

        I challenge you to provide anything that would constitute real evidence to the contrary….

      • ccdaddy

        Change the subject right, that’s how you answer questions that you have no answer for.

        So I will pose one at a time.so I don’t overload your brain.

        Mr. McNamara, does Thimerosal cross the BBB easier than does the fish mercury?

        • Lawrence McNamara

          Actually, you posit that it does, so prove it.

    • lilady R.N.

      W & N is one of our most respected commenters on science blogs…and you ccdaddy a.k.a. ccdaddy57 a.k.a. Joe Harris are clueless about science. You are fixated on the Simpsonwood Conference (and what you perceive as a grand conspiracy), a science illiterate and a crank anti-vaccine, anti-science conspiracist.

      Up until one week ago you were posting about “Simpson Wood”, but after months on science blogs and my insistence that you refer to that CDC conference properly (Simpsonwood…not Simpson Wood), you finally “got it”.

      Now just go away…the grownups are discussing Marin County’s low vaccine uptake…not the Simpsonwood Conference. I suggest you go back to AoA, where your comments might be welcome.

      • White_and_Nerdy

        ***blush****

        Thanks,

        W&N

    • White_and_Nerdy

      Hey…if you told the truth you wouldn’t have to resort to name calling…but then the exact point is that the comments here demonstrate that your arguments by assertion are not true…too bad you just don’t care enough about our children’s health…

      W&N

  • Lawrence McNamara

    A new study out of Denmark (you know, with their incredibly detailed & tracked medical records) showing that vaccines, once again, don’t have an effect on the rate of autism…

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23959427

    Recurrence of Autism Spectrum Disorders in Full- and Half-Siblings and Trends Over Time: A Population-Based Cohort Study.

    • ccdaddy

      Denmark, is known by this old saying (There’s, something rotten in Denmark)

      The hand picked researcher,Poul Thorsen has been indicted on 22 counts of fraud. Hey, he bought a house next to the CDC. Whom he sold from?????

      The indictment states, he worked by others known and unknown by this grand jury. It also states, he bought with the money he stole 2 cars a Harley Davidson Motor cycle and a house next to the CDC. Then he Poul, wired had himself almost 1 million dollars in cash. To a already setup, CDC credit union account.

      Here’s a hint, the CDC was just paying for services rendered.

      When they contacted Poul, the CDC said to Poul we are only interested in what will exonerate the CDC and Vaccines.
      I the dad of a very severely vaccine damaged child,would like to know. What about the truth! CDC shouldn’t you be seeking the truth? After all, you took an oath to protect the American people. Not kill them.

      That’s your credibility,for Denmark?????

      • Lawrence McNamara

        Actually, if you’d read the study, you’d see that this is an entirely different group of people, a different organization and looking at different sets of data (for additional population cohorts).

        See, you are once again caught in the “grand conspiracy” mindset & unable to comprehend actual Science.

      • White_and_Nerdy

        I agree that the decade plus of anti-vaccs lying about the
        Danish data and Thorsen is shameful….but then running a healthcare scam does require people to lie….Google still works for anyone interested in the facts…

        W&N

      • Linda Tock

        Denmark (and Scandinavia) have some of the most meticulously kept medical records, which makes them an ideal population for studies.

        Thorsen wasn’t even a major player in that study. He’s neither listed first nor last on the paper – meaning his contribution is limited.

  • ccdaddy

    Dr. Vaccinologist Neil Halsey own words of a vacation he took where is was canoeing on a lake. His words were, common sense and logical.

    Canoeing on a lake, he came across posters that advised fishermen to ”protect your children — release your catch.” Halsey took that message to heart. If the government was warning people against eating fish with mercury, he asked his colleagues, ”does it make sense to allow it to be injected into infants?”

    In Halsey’s view, however, thimerosal wasn’t simply a bone for rabid vaccine opponents to gnaw on. In the middle of that hectic summer he took a vacation in Maine. Canoeing on a lake, he came across posters that advised fishermen to ”protect your children — release your catch.” Halsey took that message to heart. If the government was warning people against eating fish with mercury, he asked his colleagues, ”does it make sense to allow it to be injected into infants?”

    Although other vaccinologists criticized Halsey, many of his colleagues rallied around him. ”Neal put kids ahead of the vaccination program, which was gutsy,” says Lynn Goldman, a former E.P.A. official who has been on the Hopkins faculty since 1999 and worked with Halsey on thimerosal. ”It would have been easier for him to line up on the other side.”

    Dr.Halsey went back to work at CHOP after making all these statements and the people that did not like his words of warning from CHOP got him to retract his words.

    Few scientists believe that the spike in autism could have been caused solely by the thimerosal in vaccines, but in October 2001, a vaccine-safety committee at the starchy Institute of Medicine confirmed that it was ”biologically plausible” — though by no means proved — that thimerosal could be related to neurodevelopmental delays in some children. The committee recommended that thimerosal be removed from vaccines and called for extensive research to determine any damage it had caused.

    As you just read, the IOM ruled it was Biologically plausible in 2001. The CDC asked the IOM to re-evaluate their findings by paying very little to the biological evidence and to put all their confidence in the large population studies. That we now know, were epidemiological fraud.

    Inother words, the CDC wanted the IOM to ignore the fact that Thimerosal was a known IQ lowering neural-toxic compound. That was dangerous, to the health of children. And to put all their confidence, the large population based studies that the Dir of the CDC’s last words about those studies revealed that the VSD will no longer be used to look at vaccines for a cause for Autism environmental. The Dir.
    of the CDC said to do so would be potentially misleading. She the Dir. then said, in a response to a Congressional report (that found the CDC, had little to no real science proving vaccines did not cause autism) this that proves the CDC had nothing left! “but if you do give us more time we will do good quality studies”

    She the Dir. had 10 yr’s and she pent along with the IACC 1 BILLION dollars. And she has just admitted, the best science that bought was bad quality fraudulent
    science. That helped her, to hide the biggest medical mistake in medical history.

    She, and those who helped her should be charged with the mass poisoning of
    the American children. And conspiring, with others to deceive the American public. Thus costing, several trillions of dollars in life long care cost. And untold suffering, in hundreds of thousands of American children.

    This is the biggest National disgrace, in history of this once great Nation.

    Once great Nation? Because any Nation, that chooses to harm children over letting government agencies suffer embarrassment for a mistake. That Nation, ceases to be Great. Especially, in the eyes of God!

    • Lawrence McNamara

      Yeah, so no actual evidence then, right? I suspected as much…and your stories are just downright terrible.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      @CC – you still haven’t responded to:

      http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

      The studies have been done – what might have been “biologically plausible” has been studied and found to be not supported by the Science.

      • ccdaddy

        No, as a matter of fact. If you read what I posted, you would know that the CDC demanded the IOM to ignore the Biological evidence. The very evidence, that in 2001 showed a biological plausibility. And the CDC told the IOM they were to depend, only on the Large population based studies and Denmark. And if you read the post, you would know that the Dir of the CDC admitted those studies are potentially misleading. And the author of the Denmark studies, he Poul Thorsen has been indicted on 13 counts of wire fraud and 9 counts of money laundering here in the good old US. Question, here in the land of the freedom of the press. Why is it not Breaking News, that the Person that gave the CDC the studies proving Thimerosal safe. Has been indicted on 22 counts of Fraud?

        Just before she was hired, by Merck for 2 million dollars a year.

        • Lawrence McNamara

          Again, no actual evidence, instead we get baseless assertions….

        • Lawrence McNamara

          Not to mention the fact that the Thorsen assertions are incorrect – he was not, in fact, the author – since he name appears in the middle of the list of contributors….

          • ccdaddy

            His name, is on many CDC emails. Including one that says;
            “we are only interested in, what will exonerate the CDC and vaccines” As they handed Poul, 11 million dollars.

            According to Congressman Posey,after the CDC tried tactics like you do. CDC person, at the Congressional meeting tried to say Poul was only involved, in 2 studies. She knew, that she was deceiving the Congressman. She probably thought,that Posey was as uninformed as the rest of the Congressman’s and the Senators. That, are practicing willful ignorance. She just knew, she was going to get away with it. That is till, Congressman Posey said” how many studies, did you say ” She said two, Congressman. He said no! ” try 22 of the 24 studies”

            To all, that’s defending stupidity here. Why do these people lie more than they tell the truth? And why, would you defend people who have broke every law on the books. Trying to, hide their total incompetence. Because it’s your Job!

          • Lawrence McNamara

            @CC – so any actual proof or are you going to continue to post rants? How about answering my question?

            What vaccines are only available on the US Pediatric Schedule with Thimerasol?

          • White_and_Nerdy

            I think you misquoted the CDC.
            As I recall they said they used 4 of Thorsen’s studies.

            Anyway….let’s count how many there are:
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/term=thorsen+autism+vaccines

            Well look at that….there are only 4 Thorsen autism/vaccine
            studies…so it was impossible for the CDC to have used 22 or 24….

            I agree, it was very stupid of the anti-vaccs to make such
            fools of themselves at congress…but then what else would expect from folks that are unable or unwilling to count to 4 correctly?

            W&N

          • ccdaddy

            Sorry I did not misquote anybody. I heard with my own ears the
            Florida Congressman say ‘No! 22 out of the 24 studies”

            You keep saying, we are lying about Thorsen. Fact the US. Indicted him, and there is a warrant for his arrest.

            Fact,the Indictment states he Poul work on this fraud by others known and unknown by this grand jury.

            So,with that in mind. You want to keep relying on the new studies,coming from Denmark.

          • White_and_Nerdy

            Correction: you continue to argue by assertion.

            I continue to post references so readers can fact-check.

            The example here is how many vaccine/autism articles did
            Thorsen co-author:
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/term=thorsen+autism+vaccines

            In each case you are wrong and you simply ignore the truth.

            Facts are:
            He is innocent until proven guilt
            He has not been convicted of anything
            The Danes have already dropped all charges against him

            And most importantly of all, if he guilty, if he is a crook,
            this has no impact on science because he didn’t have access to the data and he didn’t do the analysis—he was the grant administer.

            Of course it is completely dishonest of the anti-vaccs to attack
            the Danish data based on Thorsen’s alleged misconduct, but what else would one expect from folks engaged in a healthcare scam?

            W&N

        • White_and_Nerdy

          Correction: you posted your usual fact-free rants about the IOM.

          Thorsen may or may not be a thief, we don’t know for sure yet.

          We do know that the Danes dropped all charges against him
          and that he has never been convicted of anything.

          We also know that he was the grant administrator and that he
          had zero access to the raw data and that he performed none of the analysis.

          Oh we also know that the anti-vaccs continue year after year
          after year to try and deceive parents about the Danish data.

          W&N

        • Linda Tock

          Thorsen was not the main author of those studies, nor was he the second author. He was a bit player.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      @CC – and it even gets worse for you….

      http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/09/13/the-big-pharma-conspiracy/

      Not even a hint of respectable data that supports your position…..

      • ccdaddy

        Respectful Insolence is a pharma paid hit man pharma uses to discredit parents claims of vaccine damage.

        • bepatienz

          You seem unable or unwilling to understand the essential weakness of you ad hominem attaks. Even if the author of that blog (who happens to be a surgeon, rather than, say, an employee of a vaccine manufacturer) is the devil incarnate, he still might be right.

          You did nothing more informative than to suggest that someone you don’t like is a poo-poo head. Playground insults aren’t very effective in second grade. In science it’s the evidence that matters. Your post shows that you have no evidence.

          • lilady R.N.

            That blogger is a surgeon and also the director of a breast cancer research center.

            ccdaddy is neither, because he is totally uneducated in a basic science and because he is a conspiracist.

        • lilady R.N.

          So far you’ve only produced “your version” of the Simpsonwood Conference transcripts…which appear to be directly lifted from that awful “investigative report” written by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

          That report was retracted by the publisher of Salon magazine with a scathing rebuke of Kennedy:

          http://www.salon.com/2011/01/16/dangerous_immunity/

        • Lawrence McNamara

          Once again, you’ve provided no actual evidence & instead resort to personal attacks….that speaks volumes.

        • White_and_Nerdy

          Personal attacks are a poor substitute for functional literacy…but they are all you have.

          W&N

    • Lawrence McNamara

      So, can you identify what vaccines on the current pediatric schedule currently are only available with Thimerasol?

      I’m waiting for your answer……

    • White_and_Nerdy

      You know the drill….you didn’t post the IOM report. Here it is again…..:
      http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10997

      We now have decades of data showing that the true rate of ASDs has always been greater than 1%…..the only thing fraudulent has been the anti-vaccs….

      W&N

  • truth&justice

    What happened to fair and balanced? Why is Mnookin the only one to get his viewpoint across? Why aren’t parents getting heard?

    • lilady R.N.

      There are not viewpoint(s) when it comes to science. There’s science, then there is pseudoscience.

      Anti vaccine parents have commented here repeatedly without any science to back them up.

      Feel free to post your opinion…but also be aware that you should have links to scientific publications, published in first-tier peer reviewed science and medical journals to back up your opinion.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      When there are two sides, there can be balance…in this case, when all of the evidence is on one side of the argument, it is not a prerogative to give balance to unsupported arguments (like giving Creationists a space at a discussion about Evolution).

    • White_and_Nerdy

      Because there is no balance: the anti-vaccs have nothing.

      Have you read the comments below?

      W&N

  • Matt

    People who do not vaccinate their children should have their kids taken away and be sterilized. And if you don’t want to vaccinate yourself, go live in a commune away from the rest of us who’d like to stay healthy. Obviously medical facts can’t convince you, so you have no right having children and putting their lives at risk. The fact that you get your medical advice from actress Jenny McCarthy rather than the CDC says all we need to know about your intelligence level.

    • Lawrence McNamara

      @Matt – I respectively disagree with your vehemence….there are a number of valid medical reasons why certain individuals (including children) should not be vaccinated. I will continue to work to educate individuals with facts, reason and logic – I’ll leave the personal attacks and venom to the anti-vaxxers…..

    • ccdaddy

      Your assuming, that the current medical establishment is working. You would be wrong, the US. people, are by infant mortality rate alone are as bad as a third world country.

      The need for $1200 to $1400 a month, health care insurance. Is absurd.

      That in it’s self,is evidence,that the current system is not working.And the need for endless vaccines,and boosters. (because of waning, & limited immunity)
      tells a story that we are in a tail spin of sickness. And the Dr’s of today, have forgotten how to Dr. They just reach for the I phone, with a special app that’s Pharma friendly. And then, they pull out there prescription pads and start writing.

      One drug causes some side effects, now you not only have the ailment you had. But now you have, drug induced diabetes. That leads, to at least 2 to 3 more to control the diabetes Those drugs, lead to others being prescribed for nerve damage. The drug induced, diabetes has caused.

      It’s a vicious circle, with the only winner being the Pharmaceutical companies. The companies, that makes the drug that you took that
      leads to another drug and that drug leads to two other drugs.

      They literally, have forgotten how to doctor. (first do no harm) has been replaced, by get rich quick.

  • AE

    If you think your child is being protected by the vaccine you’ve given them, then be happy.
    A child who isn’t vaccinated should have no effect on your vaccinated child.. sick or not if you truly believe you are protected once you vaccinate.
    The only reason I see to fear a non-vaccinated child being around your vaccinated child would be if you didn’t believe they actually work and your child isn’t fully protected by the shots.. which makes me wonder..

    • Lawrence McNamara

      @AE – if you understood how “herd immunity” works, you’d understand that for every unvaccinated individual there is a chance that disease could take hold in a population (because vaccines aren’t 100% effective – so don’t fall victim for the Nirvana or Perfect World fallacy).

      Measles, for example, is one of the most contagious diseases on the planet (hence the ease at which foreign travelers are able to bring it here to the States).

      Perhaps it isn’t just about the individual – we care about everyone…why do you want to damage public health & allow disease to run rampant? I guess perhaps because it would be okay for other families to suffer from disease as long as it wasn’t yours, right?

      • ccdaddy

        Measles are contagious,but most cases are just 2 weeks of discomfort. For a lifetime of immunity. The Measles, embedding
        it’s self in the guts is causing inflammation that causes major
        pain in the Gut of the children. Left alone, without treatment
        (and most children are) it causes the Bowel to be immobilized
        to the point not poop or gas can be excreted. So the pain these
        children are experiencing, is as great as labor pains in a woman.
        Labor pains that can last, in some cases forever. So you have,
        with your decision to ignore the warning from the measles package
        insert (to not give within 3 wk’s to a month of another live virus)
        have put children in harm. In some cases suffering for life.

        What a program !

        • Lawrence McNamara

          @CC – you are becoming more incoherent the more you post….once again, do you have any actual evidence or citations (at all) to support your assertions?

          I’m guessing that you don’t & won’t be providing anything anytime soon……as to the real side effects of Measles:

          http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/fs-parents.html

          Including that up to 1 in 1000 cases of Measles can result in Death….doesn’t sound so benign to me……

    • White_and_Nerdy

      Except the data shows that unvaccinated people increase the risk for everyone.

      Here is one example:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11135778

      Just basic math here…

      W&N

  • tlbkwb

    I’m glad that so many parents are exercising their “rights” to not vaccinate their children. Perhaps it will take a new polio outbreak, or the baby next door to die of pertussis before folks “get it.” Luckily, my generation only had to survive mumps in some cases, and chicken pox. Nothing is worse than watching a child die from whooping cough, or some other easily preventable disease. I guess becoming the nexus of the next outbreak is preferable to not having one at all. As one pediatrician in Marin County phrased it, “the next polio outbreak will originate in one of the wealthiest, most educated area of the US. What a shame.”