Follow KQED’s reporting on criminal justice issues.
After Parole, ICE Deported This Refugee Back to a Country He Never Knew
Alameda County DA Charges 3 Police Officers With Manslaughter in Death of Mario Gonzalez
San José City Council Appoints New Independent Police Auditor
San José Police Department Sees Drop in Officer Complaints
Recall of Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price Qualifies for a Vote
Feds Abruptly Close East Bay Women’s Prison Following Sexual Abuse Scandals
Stockton Settles $6 Million Lawsuit Over Man's Police Restraint Death
8. Last Stand | S2: New Folsom
Campaign to Roll Back Proposition 47 Criminal Justice Reforms Could Head to Voters
7. “We Don’t Do Coincidence” | S2: New Folsom
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Small things, like powdered milk, now transport him back there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That smell, that feel of chalk … it took me right back to the refugee camp,” he recently remembered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the aftermath of the Vietnam War, the State Department contracted with religious agencies to help resettle the hundreds of thousands of refugees arriving in the U.S. from Southeast Asia. After receiving his green card, Phoeun landed with a Mormon family in northern Utah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His first memories in the U.S. were of eating tuna fish sandwiches and macaroni and cheese. Everything, including the enormous Wasatch Mountains, felt surreal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I remember the first time it snowed,” he said. “It scared the hell out of me. I was like, ‘Man, this is cold. Are we gonna freeze out here?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After life stabilized in Utah, You’s parents moved the family to Long Beach, California. Thanks to a student exchange program at Cal State Long Beach, the city’s Cambodian population had grown since the 1950s. By the time the Khmer Rouge fell in 1979, Long Beach had the largest population of Cambodians outside of Cambodia. In some ways, it felt like home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the move to California also brought unwanted reminders of the country they left behind. Long Beach was a violent place in the 1980s, particularly for Southeast Asian refugees moving into historically Black and Latino neighborhoods. You was bullied at school, and when he was 13, he joined his older brother’s gang for protection. His life spiraled out of control from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1995, a gang beat up You and his nephew in a school parking lot. The next day, You fired a shotgun into a crowd of teenagers in retaliation. It killed one of the young men and injured four others. A year later, he was convicted of first-degree murder and given a 35-year-to-life sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You’s first few years of adulthood began in California’s state prison system, and it was rough. He regularly witnessed fights and stabbings at Salinas Valley State Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You almost have to stop yourself from being human,” he recalls. “Every time you see blood, the human side of me makes me wanna care. Like, ‘Hey man, I know this is a prison, but are you OK?’ But I can’t do that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wasn’t until You suffered his own loss that he reflected on his crime. The news came through a letter in the mail from an older sister.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It] said, ‘Hey, look, we have some news that your sister was murdered.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His sister had been shot in a parking lot by a jealous boyfriend, according to You. He felt anger but also a strange sense of clarity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11966564,news_11975246,news_11800255,news_11975904\"]“It dawned on me that this must be how the victim’s family felt when I took their son away from them,” he reflected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After a dozen years in California maximum security prisons, You was transferred to San Quentin State Prison. He enrolled in rehabilitation programs, including the intensive Victim Offender Education Group. The early sessions helped him confront the magnitude of his crime and, for the first time, unpack the traumatic life events that led up to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eventually, he started his own program for other Asian American and Pacific Islander inmates at San Quentin to talk about history, war, and how to enter back into society.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2021, after 25 years behind bars, You was up for parole. It was actually his second time presenting his case to the state’s board — the first time, he said, he completely froze up. This time, though, You was ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when he first heard the news of his freedom through a Zoom meeting during the COVID-19 pandemic, You struggled to take it in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To finally hear those words just didn’t feel real,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said that feeling joy didn’t feel right either. “It takes away from the crime I’ve committed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unfortunately for You, things were about to become much more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Deported to Cambodia\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A few days before he was set to be released, he got a visit from a federal official who informed him that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had placed a hold on him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although You became eligible for U.S. citizenship when he turned 18, his parents’ hectic home life — with 12 family members rotating in and out of a three-bedroom house — kept them from pursuing an application.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When You lost his green card status following the murder conviction, he was no longer a protected refugee. Rather, he was now illegally on U.S. soil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983321\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1280px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983321\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1280\" height=\"960\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014.jpg 1280w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014-160x120.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">\u003cem>Phoeun \u003c/em>You takes a selfie in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Pheoun You)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The ICE hold meant that federal officials could try to deport him after his release from prison. Instead of walking out of San Quentin, a free man, You was transferred to an immigration detention center in central California where he could choose to appeal his case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You said that was a difficult decision. If he fought his case, it would happen from a detention cell in central California — a process that could take years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You have to weigh it out like, does it matter when the law is already set in stone? Do you prolong your sentence and your stay if you know you’re gonna lose the case anyways?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So You signed his own deportation papers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he stepped off the plane in Phnom Penh a few months later, he was accompanied by three ICE agents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The entire experience left him shell-shocked. You didn’t have a job or speak Khmer and had no friends or professional contacts. And he had no proof he was a citizen of any country; documentation of his birth was destroyed during the genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Luckily, You still had relatives in Cambodia. He spent the first few weeks of his new life in Southeast Asia, reconnecting with his aunt in the Cambodian countryside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He hadn’t seen her in nearly 50 years, but she offered to sponsor his Cambodian citizenship application.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>New life in Cambodia\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You’s aunt hooked him up with a third-floor studio on the outskirts of Phnom Penh. After weeks of watching the neighborhood wake up from his balcony — food carts passing by, moms walking their kids to school — he started to feel more settled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But other adjustments have come more slowly. Because of the language barrier, You spends a lot of time alone in his apartment. He uses a translator app on his phone to communicate at restaurants or the grocery store, but he’s hesitant to date or make new friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m a social person,” he said. “I want to mingle. I want to connect on a deeper level, and I don’t have the words to do that. And it feels really awkward because I can’t express (myself) fully.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Phoeun You\"]‘You have to weigh it out like, does it matter when the law is already set in stone? Do you prolong your sentence and your stay if you know you’re gonna lose the case anyways?’[/pullquote]Everywhere he looks, You is reminded that he’s far away from home. Billboards are in different languages. There are no sidewalks or street lamps, and the food stalls still amaze him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People stare at him — which makes him uncomfortable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They look at me, and it’s like, OK: the tattoos, the shaved head … They’ll notice my accent is a little off. They get the hint like, ‘This guy’s not completely one of us.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Very quickly, You had to start looking for a job in a country where he didn’t speak the language.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But his last job was more than two decades ago, working at a casino in Las Vegas. With some experience teaching English as a second language to adults at San Quentin, You thought he might land a similar gig in Phnom Penh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was applying for a good four months,” he said — pursuing around 20 different positions — but he kept getting turned down. “I was like, ‘Man, what is going on?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You wasn’t sure, but he had a sinking feeling that his criminal record in the U.S. followed him to Cambodia. He said most hiring managers didn’t know about his conviction right away, but when interviewers asked him what a working-aged man from the U.S. was doing in Phnom Penh, You felt like they were piecing things together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You spent months worrying he’d never get back on his feet. But finally, he broke through. In October 2023, he landed a job teaching English at an international school in Phnom Penh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said the work is exhausting: He teaches five grade levels and isn’t paid much. But he said it’s helping him find purpose again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recently, he assigned his ninth-grade students to interview their parents. He said it’s sometimes difficult for Cambodians to communicate on a deeper level with their parents, so his goal is for them to get to know themselves better by learning about their family’s history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think of my own past, growing up,” he said. “I didn’t know my parents enough.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You laments the lack of love and connection he felt at home as a kid. Part of him feels like life might have been different otherwise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He can’t change the past, but he said that teaching helps him reflect on his childhood and look forward to a future with a family of his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Phoeun You knows what it’s like to be a refugee in the United States, serve prison time for a violent crime, and be deported to a country he never knew. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713562501,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":53,"wordCount":1850},"headData":{"title":"After Parole, ICE Deported This Refugee Back to a Country He Never Knew | KQED","description":"Phoeun You knows what it’s like to be a refugee in the United States, serve prison time for a violent crime, and be deported to a country he never knew. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"After Parole, ICE Deported This Refugee Back to a Country He Never Knew","datePublished":"2024-04-19T11:00:52.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-19T21:35:01.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2374918807.mp3?updated=1713372438","sticky":false,"nprByline":"Mateo Schimpf","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983313/after-parole-ice-deported-this-refugee-back-to-a-country-he-never-knew","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>When Phoeun You landed in Phnom Penh in March 2022, he was surprised by how tall the buildings were. “I thought about Cambodia like, man, I’m gonna see cows on the road. Dirt roads and stuff like that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He was born there, but by the time he returned at almost 50 years old, he was effectively a foreigner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You was an infant when his family fled the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/asia/khmer-rouge-cambodia-genocide.html\">Cambodian genocide\u003c/a> in 1976. Fifteen of them — siblings, parents, grandma, nieces and nephews — ended up in a refugee camp in Thailand. It was a harrowing but familiar path for the estimated 1 million Cambodians who escaped Pol Pot’s bloody dictatorship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You spent the first five years of his life in the refugee camp in Thailand. It wasn’t until later in life that he realized how traumatic those early years were. Small things, like powdered milk, now transport him back there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That smell, that feel of chalk … it took me right back to the refugee camp,” he recently remembered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the aftermath of the Vietnam War, the State Department contracted with religious agencies to help resettle the hundreds of thousands of refugees arriving in the U.S. from Southeast Asia. After receiving his green card, Phoeun landed with a Mormon family in northern Utah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His first memories in the U.S. were of eating tuna fish sandwiches and macaroni and cheese. Everything, including the enormous Wasatch Mountains, felt surreal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I remember the first time it snowed,” he said. “It scared the hell out of me. I was like, ‘Man, this is cold. Are we gonna freeze out here?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After life stabilized in Utah, You’s parents moved the family to Long Beach, California. Thanks to a student exchange program at Cal State Long Beach, the city’s Cambodian population had grown since the 1950s. By the time the Khmer Rouge fell in 1979, Long Beach had the largest population of Cambodians outside of Cambodia. In some ways, it felt like home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the move to California also brought unwanted reminders of the country they left behind. Long Beach was a violent place in the 1980s, particularly for Southeast Asian refugees moving into historically Black and Latino neighborhoods. You was bullied at school, and when he was 13, he joined his older brother’s gang for protection. His life spiraled out of control from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1995, a gang beat up You and his nephew in a school parking lot. The next day, You fired a shotgun into a crowd of teenagers in retaliation. It killed one of the young men and injured four others. A year later, he was convicted of first-degree murder and given a 35-year-to-life sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You’s first few years of adulthood began in California’s state prison system, and it was rough. He regularly witnessed fights and stabbings at Salinas Valley State Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You almost have to stop yourself from being human,” he recalls. “Every time you see blood, the human side of me makes me wanna care. Like, ‘Hey man, I know this is a prison, but are you OK?’ But I can’t do that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wasn’t until You suffered his own loss that he reflected on his crime. The news came through a letter in the mail from an older sister.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It] said, ‘Hey, look, we have some news that your sister was murdered.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His sister had been shot in a parking lot by a jealous boyfriend, according to You. He felt anger but also a strange sense of clarity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"Related Stories ","postid":"news_11966564,news_11975246,news_11800255,news_11975904"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“It dawned on me that this must be how the victim’s family felt when I took their son away from them,” he reflected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After a dozen years in California maximum security prisons, You was transferred to San Quentin State Prison. He enrolled in rehabilitation programs, including the intensive Victim Offender Education Group. The early sessions helped him confront the magnitude of his crime and, for the first time, unpack the traumatic life events that led up to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eventually, he started his own program for other Asian American and Pacific Islander inmates at San Quentin to talk about history, war, and how to enter back into society.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2021, after 25 years behind bars, You was up for parole. It was actually his second time presenting his case to the state’s board — the first time, he said, he completely froze up. This time, though, You was ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when he first heard the news of his freedom through a Zoom meeting during the COVID-19 pandemic, You struggled to take it in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To finally hear those words just didn’t feel real,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said that feeling joy didn’t feel right either. “It takes away from the crime I’ve committed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unfortunately for You, things were about to become much more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Deported to Cambodia\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A few days before he was set to be released, he got a visit from a federal official who informed him that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had placed a hold on him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although You became eligible for U.S. citizenship when he turned 18, his parents’ hectic home life — with 12 family members rotating in and out of a three-bedroom house — kept them from pursuing an application.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When You lost his green card status following the murder conviction, he was no longer a protected refugee. Rather, he was now illegally on U.S. soil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983321\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1280px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983321\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1280\" height=\"960\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014.jpg 1280w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/IMG-20240413-WA0014-160x120.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">\u003cem>Phoeun \u003c/em>You takes a selfie in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Pheoun You)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The ICE hold meant that federal officials could try to deport him after his release from prison. Instead of walking out of San Quentin, a free man, You was transferred to an immigration detention center in central California where he could choose to appeal his case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You said that was a difficult decision. If he fought his case, it would happen from a detention cell in central California — a process that could take years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You have to weigh it out like, does it matter when the law is already set in stone? Do you prolong your sentence and your stay if you know you’re gonna lose the case anyways?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So You signed his own deportation papers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he stepped off the plane in Phnom Penh a few months later, he was accompanied by three ICE agents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The entire experience left him shell-shocked. You didn’t have a job or speak Khmer and had no friends or professional contacts. And he had no proof he was a citizen of any country; documentation of his birth was destroyed during the genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Luckily, You still had relatives in Cambodia. He spent the first few weeks of his new life in Southeast Asia, reconnecting with his aunt in the Cambodian countryside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He hadn’t seen her in nearly 50 years, but she offered to sponsor his Cambodian citizenship application.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>New life in Cambodia\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You’s aunt hooked him up with a third-floor studio on the outskirts of Phnom Penh. After weeks of watching the neighborhood wake up from his balcony — food carts passing by, moms walking their kids to school — he started to feel more settled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But other adjustments have come more slowly. Because of the language barrier, You spends a lot of time alone in his apartment. He uses a translator app on his phone to communicate at restaurants or the grocery store, but he’s hesitant to date or make new friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m a social person,” he said. “I want to mingle. I want to connect on a deeper level, and I don’t have the words to do that. And it feels really awkward because I can’t express (myself) fully.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘You have to weigh it out like, does it matter when the law is already set in stone? Do you prolong your sentence and your stay if you know you’re gonna lose the case anyways?’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"align":"right","size":"medium","citation":"Phoeun You","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Everywhere he looks, You is reminded that he’s far away from home. Billboards are in different languages. There are no sidewalks or street lamps, and the food stalls still amaze him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People stare at him — which makes him uncomfortable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They look at me, and it’s like, OK: the tattoos, the shaved head … They’ll notice my accent is a little off. They get the hint like, ‘This guy’s not completely one of us.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Very quickly, You had to start looking for a job in a country where he didn’t speak the language.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But his last job was more than two decades ago, working at a casino in Las Vegas. With some experience teaching English as a second language to adults at San Quentin, You thought he might land a similar gig in Phnom Penh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was applying for a good four months,” he said — pursuing around 20 different positions — but he kept getting turned down. “I was like, ‘Man, what is going on?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You wasn’t sure, but he had a sinking feeling that his criminal record in the U.S. followed him to Cambodia. He said most hiring managers didn’t know about his conviction right away, but when interviewers asked him what a working-aged man from the U.S. was doing in Phnom Penh, You felt like they were piecing things together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You spent months worrying he’d never get back on his feet. But finally, he broke through. In October 2023, he landed a job teaching English at an international school in Phnom Penh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said the work is exhausting: He teaches five grade levels and isn’t paid much. But he said it’s helping him find purpose again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recently, he assigned his ninth-grade students to interview their parents. He said it’s sometimes difficult for Cambodians to communicate on a deeper level with their parents, so his goal is for them to get to know themselves better by learning about their family’s history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think of my own past, growing up,” he said. “I didn’t know my parents enough.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You laments the lack of love and connection he felt at home as a kid. Part of him feels like life might have been different otherwise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He can’t change the past, but he said that teaching helps him reflect on his childhood and look forward to a future with a family of his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983313/after-parole-ice-deported-this-refugee-back-to-a-country-he-never-knew","authors":["byline_news_11983313"],"programs":["news_72","news_26731"],"categories":["news_1169","news_6188","news_8"],"tags":["news_17725","news_18123","news_27626","news_21027","news_20202","news_20463"],"featImg":"news_11983320","label":"news_26731"},"news_11983439":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983439","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983439","score":null,"sort":[1713497857000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"alameda-county-da-files-manslaughter-charges-against-police-officers-in-mario-gonzalezs-death","title":"Alameda County DA Charges 3 Police Officers With Manslaughter in Death of Mario Gonzalez","publishDate":1713497857,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Alameda County DA Charges 3 Police Officers With Manslaughter in Death of Mario Gonzalez | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 5 p.m. Friday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price on Thursday announced her office had filed involuntary manslaughter charges against three Alameda police officers involved in the 2021 death of Mario Gonzalez, a young, unarmed man who stopped breathing after they pinned him face-down to the ground in a city park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price’s move to file felony charges against the officers — Eric McKinley, James Fisher and Cameron Leahy — reverses the decision of her predecessor, \u003ca class=\"\" href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11910601/no-criminal-charges-against-alameda-officers-in-death-of-mario-gonzalez\" data-link=\"native\">who in 2022 declined to charge them after finding no evidence of wrongdoing.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Gonzalez case was one of the highest-profile of \u003ca class=\"\" href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/eastbay/article/alameda-county-d-a-reopening-investigations-for-17754790.php\" data-link=\"native\">eight police shootings or in-custody deaths\u003c/a> that Price, a former civil rights attorney, reopened shortly after taking office last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a Thursday press conference, Price said she had been “walled off” from this particular case and that her office’s Public Accountability Unit had independently made the charging decision. Price created that unit after taking office to review officer misconduct cases like this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is important that we have a Public Accountability Unit, that we hold people accountable when there is harm, and that we don’t have a double standard,” said Price, who is also now facing \u003ca class=\"\" href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/pamela-price-alameda-county-da-face-recall-vote-19404771.php\" data-link=\"native\">a recall election\u003c/a>. “We won’t be able to administer justice if the community doesn’t trust that the system is going to work for everybody on an equal basis.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re trying to rebuild trust in a system that has not always been fair to folks, particularly in Alameda County,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If convicted, the officers could face up to four years in state prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Thursday’s press conference, Price declined to say if any new evidence had been introduced that may have influenced the decision to bring the new charges, which were were filed just before the criminal statute of limitations expired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All three officers continue to work in law enforcement. Fisher is a Contra Costa County sheriff’s deputy, while Leahy and McKinley are still at the Alameda Police Department. The two were placed on leave on April 17, after the department was notified of the charges, Alameda Police Chief Nishant Joshi said in a statement on Friday.[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"mario-gonzalez\"]Joshi, who became chief shortly after the incident, said he was confident in the justice system and pledged to fully cooperate with the process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But he also noted that he had conducted his own “independent review” of the multiple previous investigations — including those done by the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office, the Coroner’s Bureau, and the city — and said he “concurred that Alameda police officers did not engage in any misconduct and I stand by that decision today.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alison Berry Wilkinson, an attorney who represented the three officers during the previous investigations, blasted the DA’s decision, calling it a blatant act of “political prosecution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The District Attorney waited until the 11th hour before the statute of limitations was set to expire to bring these charges just days after it was confirmed she would face recall,” she said in an email statement. “There is no new evidence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wilkinson defended the officers’ actions while taking Gonzalez into custody as “reasonable, necessary, and lawful” and attributed his death to “drug toxicity, not criminal misconduct.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are confident a jury will see through this charade and exonerate the officers, just as the two prior independent investigations did,” she added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Oakland civil rights attorney Michael Haddad praised the DA’s decision to file charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These charges are long overdue. They’re not excessive,” Haddad told KQED on Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’re very appropriate and in fact obvious in this situation. I think that from our work in the civil case, we basically gave the district attorney this case tied up in a bow, just from the records we filed in open court,” he said. “And it’s really clear that a jury should decide whether these officers are criminally responsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gonzalez, a 26-year-old man from Oakland, was confronted by three police officers in a small Alameda park on the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871345/city-of-alameda-releases-police-body-cam-footage-of-mario-gonzalez-death\">morning of April 19, 2021\u003c/a>, after several neighbors called 911 reporting a man behaving erratically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As captured in the nearly \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJnToNolHw\">hour-long police body camera video\u003c/a>, the interaction began calmly but quickly escalated after the officers made repeated, unsuccessful attempts to obtain Gonzalez’s full name and ID. They then grabbed him without ever accusing him of a crime or placing him under arrest. When Gonzalez resisted, the officers took him to the ground, pinning him on his stomach, with at least one of them pressing an elbow and knee into his back and shoulder as he struggled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The officers continued to hold Gonzalez in a prone position, his hands restrained behind his back, for roughly five minutes, at which point he went limp and appeared to stop breathing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After officers performed CPR and administered at least two doses of Narcan, a drug used to counteract opiate overdoses, paramedics rushed Gonzalez to Alameda Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The incident sparked fierce local protests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 2022 review of the case by then-DA Nancy O’Malley’s office found the officers acted reasonably out of concern that Gonzalez might pose a threat to them, himself and others. O’Malley’s office said the officers had tried to “deescalate” the situation by using “necessary” force but never struck Gonzalez or used any illicit chokeholds or weapons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An autopsy \u003ca href=\"https://www.alamedaca.gov/files/assets/public/alameda-pio/gonzalez-mario-coroners-investigation.pdf\">performed by the Alameda County coroner (PDF)\u003c/a>, and released nearly eight months after the incident, classified Gonzalez’s death as a homicide, but identified the “toxic effects of methamphetamine” as the leading cause of his fatal cardiac arrest. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Second-autopsy-finds-Mario-Gonzalez-died-of-17131892.php\">subsequent independent autopsy\u003c/a>, requested by attorneys representing Gonzalez’s family, classified the death as a homicide, attributing it to “restraint asphyxiation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Robert Weisberg, law professor and co-director of Stanford University’s Criminal Justice Center, told KQED on Friday it would be a potentially close case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These would be difficult jury questions,” Weisberg said. “First if the restraint even played a significant causal role in his death, and second of course whether the officers displayed gross negligence or recklessness in supplying that excessive pressure.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I can imagine a judge saying ‘Yes, I think there’s sufficient evidence,’ from which a jury could conclude that there’s a basis for an involuntary manslaughter charge. But it’s very tough to say whether a jury would come to that conclusion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last December, the city of Alameda agreed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11970180/attorney-for-family-of-mario-gonzalez-calls-11-million-settlement-a-historic-amount\">to pay $11 million to Gonzalez’s 7-year-old son\u003c/a> and $350,000 to his mother to settle a civil rights suit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Alex Emslie.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The move by District Attorney Pamela Price's office to file felony involuntary manslaughter charges against the officers reverses the decision of her predecessor, who in 2022 declined to charge them after finding no evidence of wrongdoing.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713575700,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":32,"wordCount":1199},"headData":{"title":"Alameda County DA Charges 3 Police Officers With Manslaughter in Death of Mario Gonzalez | KQED","description":"The move by District Attorney Pamela Price's office to file felony involuntary manslaughter charges against the officers reverses the decision of her predecessor, who in 2022 declined to charge them after finding no evidence of wrongdoing.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Alameda County DA Charges 3 Police Officers With Manslaughter in Death of Mario Gonzalez","datePublished":"2024-04-19T03:37:37.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-20T01:15:00.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983439/alameda-county-da-files-manslaughter-charges-against-police-officers-in-mario-gonzalezs-death","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 5 p.m. Friday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price on Thursday announced her office had filed involuntary manslaughter charges against three Alameda police officers involved in the 2021 death of Mario Gonzalez, a young, unarmed man who stopped breathing after they pinned him face-down to the ground in a city park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Price’s move to file felony charges against the officers — Eric McKinley, James Fisher and Cameron Leahy — reverses the decision of her predecessor, \u003ca class=\"\" href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11910601/no-criminal-charges-against-alameda-officers-in-death-of-mario-gonzalez\" data-link=\"native\">who in 2022 declined to charge them after finding no evidence of wrongdoing.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Gonzalez case was one of the highest-profile of \u003ca class=\"\" href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/eastbay/article/alameda-county-d-a-reopening-investigations-for-17754790.php\" data-link=\"native\">eight police shootings or in-custody deaths\u003c/a> that Price, a former civil rights attorney, reopened shortly after taking office last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a Thursday press conference, Price said she had been “walled off” from this particular case and that her office’s Public Accountability Unit had independently made the charging decision. Price created that unit after taking office to review officer misconduct cases like this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is important that we have a Public Accountability Unit, that we hold people accountable when there is harm, and that we don’t have a double standard,” said Price, who is also now facing \u003ca class=\"\" href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/pamela-price-alameda-county-da-face-recall-vote-19404771.php\" data-link=\"native\">a recall election\u003c/a>. “We won’t be able to administer justice if the community doesn’t trust that the system is going to work for everybody on an equal basis.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re trying to rebuild trust in a system that has not always been fair to folks, particularly in Alameda County,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If convicted, the officers could face up to four years in state prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Thursday’s press conference, Price declined to say if any new evidence had been introduced that may have influenced the decision to bring the new charges, which were were filed just before the criminal statute of limitations expired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All three officers continue to work in law enforcement. Fisher is a Contra Costa County sheriff’s deputy, while Leahy and McKinley are still at the Alameda Police Department. The two were placed on leave on April 17, after the department was notified of the charges, Alameda Police Chief Nishant Joshi said in a statement on Friday.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"mario-gonzalez"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Joshi, who became chief shortly after the incident, said he was confident in the justice system and pledged to fully cooperate with the process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But he also noted that he had conducted his own “independent review” of the multiple previous investigations — including those done by the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office, the Coroner’s Bureau, and the city — and said he “concurred that Alameda police officers did not engage in any misconduct and I stand by that decision today.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alison Berry Wilkinson, an attorney who represented the three officers during the previous investigations, blasted the DA’s decision, calling it a blatant act of “political prosecution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The District Attorney waited until the 11th hour before the statute of limitations was set to expire to bring these charges just days after it was confirmed she would face recall,” she said in an email statement. “There is no new evidence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wilkinson defended the officers’ actions while taking Gonzalez into custody as “reasonable, necessary, and lawful” and attributed his death to “drug toxicity, not criminal misconduct.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are confident a jury will see through this charade and exonerate the officers, just as the two prior independent investigations did,” she added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Oakland civil rights attorney Michael Haddad praised the DA’s decision to file charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These charges are long overdue. They’re not excessive,” Haddad told KQED on Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’re very appropriate and in fact obvious in this situation. I think that from our work in the civil case, we basically gave the district attorney this case tied up in a bow, just from the records we filed in open court,” he said. “And it’s really clear that a jury should decide whether these officers are criminally responsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gonzalez, a 26-year-old man from Oakland, was confronted by three police officers in a small Alameda park on the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871345/city-of-alameda-releases-police-body-cam-footage-of-mario-gonzalez-death\">morning of April 19, 2021\u003c/a>, after several neighbors called 911 reporting a man behaving erratically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As captured in the nearly \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJnToNolHw\">hour-long police body camera video\u003c/a>, the interaction began calmly but quickly escalated after the officers made repeated, unsuccessful attempts to obtain Gonzalez’s full name and ID. They then grabbed him without ever accusing him of a crime or placing him under arrest. When Gonzalez resisted, the officers took him to the ground, pinning him on his stomach, with at least one of them pressing an elbow and knee into his back and shoulder as he struggled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The officers continued to hold Gonzalez in a prone position, his hands restrained behind his back, for roughly five minutes, at which point he went limp and appeared to stop breathing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After officers performed CPR and administered at least two doses of Narcan, a drug used to counteract opiate overdoses, paramedics rushed Gonzalez to Alameda Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The incident sparked fierce local protests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 2022 review of the case by then-DA Nancy O’Malley’s office found the officers acted reasonably out of concern that Gonzalez might pose a threat to them, himself and others. O’Malley’s office said the officers had tried to “deescalate” the situation by using “necessary” force but never struck Gonzalez or used any illicit chokeholds or weapons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An autopsy \u003ca href=\"https://www.alamedaca.gov/files/assets/public/alameda-pio/gonzalez-mario-coroners-investigation.pdf\">performed by the Alameda County coroner (PDF)\u003c/a>, and released nearly eight months after the incident, classified Gonzalez’s death as a homicide, but identified the “toxic effects of methamphetamine” as the leading cause of his fatal cardiac arrest. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Second-autopsy-finds-Mario-Gonzalez-died-of-17131892.php\">subsequent independent autopsy\u003c/a>, requested by attorneys representing Gonzalez’s family, classified the death as a homicide, attributing it to “restraint asphyxiation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Robert Weisberg, law professor and co-director of Stanford University’s Criminal Justice Center, told KQED on Friday it would be a potentially close case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These would be difficult jury questions,” Weisberg said. “First if the restraint even played a significant causal role in his death, and second of course whether the officers displayed gross negligence or recklessness in supplying that excessive pressure.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I can imagine a judge saying ‘Yes, I think there’s sufficient evidence,’ from which a jury could conclude that there’s a basis for an involuntary manslaughter charge. But it’s very tough to say whether a jury would come to that conclusion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last December, the city of Alameda agreed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11970180/attorney-for-family-of-mario-gonzalez-calls-11-million-settlement-a-historic-amount\">to pay $11 million to Gonzalez’s 7-year-old son\u003c/a> and $350,000 to his mother to settle a civil rights suit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Alex Emslie.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983439/alameda-county-da-files-manslaughter-charges-against-police-officers-in-mario-gonzalezs-death","authors":["1263"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_23318","news_29448","news_17725","news_27626","news_29381"],"featImg":"news_11872820","label":"news"},"news_11983119":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983119","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983119","score":null,"sort":[1713301219000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"san-jose-city-council-appoints-new-independent-police-auditor","title":"San José City Council Appoints New Independent Police Auditor","publishDate":1713301219,"format":"standard","headTitle":"San José City Council Appoints New Independent Police Auditor | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This story was updated on April 16, 2024 at 4:45 p.m.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San José leaders appointed a former police officer as the city’s new independent police auditor on Tuesday, less than a year after the previous auditor retired abruptly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eddie Aubrey, who currently investigates police misconduct as the civilian manager in the office of professional accountability for the Richmond Police Department, will take over as San José’s IPA on May 6, the city announced in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey served more than a decade as a police officer in Southern California in the 1980s and 1990s, including for the Los Angeles Police Department, according to the city and his LinkedIn profile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983170\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11983170 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Eddie Aubrey, who currently investigates police misconduct as the civilian manager for the Richmond Police Department, will take over as San José’s IPA on May 6. \u003ccite>(Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>His other law enforcement and police oversight experience includes stints as the chief prosecuting attorney for Renton, Washington, the Independent Reviewer in charge of civilian oversight of police in Fresno and seven years as a pro tem judge in Washington. He has also run a law firm and headed up a college public safety department and risk management department in Tacoma, Washington.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am honored and privileged to assume the role of your next independent police auditor,” Aubrey said in the city statement. “I look forward to the opportunity to engage with the diverse communities in San José, advancing police accountability and enhancing police services.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey, during a press conference on Tuesday afternoon, addressed potential concern over a former police officer taking the lead role in police oversight in San José. He said his commitment is to fair and unbiased oversight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My demonstrated history shows that I have held officers accountable. Officers have been terminated; they have been suspended,” he said. He also noted officers in other cases he worked on were exonerated. “So they have a 15-year track record to look at.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San José Mayor Matt Mahan said in a statement that Aubrey will help maintain trust between residents and the Police Department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re incredibly fortunate to have a new independent police auditor with extensive experience both working within and overseeing the conduct of law enforcement agencies,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey said he grew up with an African American father and a Korean mother in South Central Los Angeles and was on the police force during the violence and civil unrest taking place after the police beating of Rodney King.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m looking at my neighborhood burned down, shots being fired, in the middle of the night, cars [are being] overturned,” he said. “And I asked myself, ‘Am I doing enough in the role of police officer?’ I said, ‘I’m doing a lot, but I can do a lot more.’ And that’s what made me decide that I wanted to change and be a lawyer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey will replace interim Independent Police Auditor Karyn Sinunu-Towery, who has held the position since last summer, a time of turmoil for the office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery, a former 30-year prosecutor in Santa Clara County, was appointed to the temporary role following former IPA Shivaun Nurre’s unexpected retirement in June after nearly five years in the role.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was later revealed that just before she retired, Nurre got into a heated verbal argument with a San José police officer at a public event while she was drunk. [aside postID=news_11983106 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SanJosePolice01-1020x680.jpg']A few months later, the assistant IPA, Eva Roa, resigned and wrote a letter lambasting city management and officials for largely ignoring the IPA’s office and criticizing Sinunu-Towery for being too trusting of police department investigators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before Nurre’s retirement, she advocated for the city to grant expanded powers to the IPA’s office, including the right to directly conduct civilian investigations into alleged police misconduct instead of only auditing internal police investigations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former Mayor Sam Liccardo backed the proposal but later stalled without enough support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In November last year, the City Council voted 8–2 against expanding the IPA’s powers. Sinunu-Towery, when she first took on the role, said she supported the idea of more power for the office but later reversed course, saying the office needed to take better advantage of the powers it already has.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey said Tuesday that he thinks San José’s oversight program is a “really excellent model,” though he left open the possibility of change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Right now, what I’m looking at is what do we have, what can we use and how effectively can we use that model in the things that we’re doing there,” he said. “And then, we’re always open to entertaining other options there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Eddie Aubrey, who currently investigates police misconduct in Richmond, will take over as San José’s new police watchdog on May 6.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713313202,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":22,"wordCount":851},"headData":{"title":"San José City Council Appoints New Independent Police Auditor | KQED","description":"Eddie Aubrey, who currently investigates police misconduct in Richmond, will take over as San José’s new police watchdog on May 6.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"San José City Council Appoints New Independent Police Auditor","datePublished":"2024-04-16T21:00:19.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-17T00:20:02.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983119/san-jose-city-council-appoints-new-independent-police-auditor","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This story was updated on April 16, 2024 at 4:45 p.m.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San José leaders appointed a former police officer as the city’s new independent police auditor on Tuesday, less than a year after the previous auditor retired abruptly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eddie Aubrey, who currently investigates police misconduct as the civilian manager in the office of professional accountability for the Richmond Police Department, will take over as San José’s IPA on May 6, the city announced in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey served more than a decade as a police officer in Southern California in the 1980s and 1990s, including for the Los Angeles Police Department, according to the city and his LinkedIn profile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983170\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11983170 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SJ-NEW-INDEPENDENT-POLICE-AUDITOR-4-GH-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Eddie Aubrey, who currently investigates police misconduct as the civilian manager for the Richmond Police Department, will take over as San José’s IPA on May 6. \u003ccite>(Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>His other law enforcement and police oversight experience includes stints as the chief prosecuting attorney for Renton, Washington, the Independent Reviewer in charge of civilian oversight of police in Fresno and seven years as a pro tem judge in Washington. He has also run a law firm and headed up a college public safety department and risk management department in Tacoma, Washington.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am honored and privileged to assume the role of your next independent police auditor,” Aubrey said in the city statement. “I look forward to the opportunity to engage with the diverse communities in San José, advancing police accountability and enhancing police services.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey, during a press conference on Tuesday afternoon, addressed potential concern over a former police officer taking the lead role in police oversight in San José. He said his commitment is to fair and unbiased oversight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My demonstrated history shows that I have held officers accountable. Officers have been terminated; they have been suspended,” he said. He also noted officers in other cases he worked on were exonerated. “So they have a 15-year track record to look at.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San José Mayor Matt Mahan said in a statement that Aubrey will help maintain trust between residents and the Police Department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re incredibly fortunate to have a new independent police auditor with extensive experience both working within and overseeing the conduct of law enforcement agencies,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey said he grew up with an African American father and a Korean mother in South Central Los Angeles and was on the police force during the violence and civil unrest taking place after the police beating of Rodney King.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m looking at my neighborhood burned down, shots being fired, in the middle of the night, cars [are being] overturned,” he said. “And I asked myself, ‘Am I doing enough in the role of police officer?’ I said, ‘I’m doing a lot, but I can do a lot more.’ And that’s what made me decide that I wanted to change and be a lawyer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey will replace interim Independent Police Auditor Karyn Sinunu-Towery, who has held the position since last summer, a time of turmoil for the office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery, a former 30-year prosecutor in Santa Clara County, was appointed to the temporary role following former IPA Shivaun Nurre’s unexpected retirement in June after nearly five years in the role.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was later revealed that just before she retired, Nurre got into a heated verbal argument with a San José police officer at a public event while she was drunk. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11983106","hero":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/SanJosePolice01-1020x680.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>A few months later, the assistant IPA, Eva Roa, resigned and wrote a letter lambasting city management and officials for largely ignoring the IPA’s office and criticizing Sinunu-Towery for being too trusting of police department investigators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before Nurre’s retirement, she advocated for the city to grant expanded powers to the IPA’s office, including the right to directly conduct civilian investigations into alleged police misconduct instead of only auditing internal police investigations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former Mayor Sam Liccardo backed the proposal but later stalled without enough support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In November last year, the City Council voted 8–2 against expanding the IPA’s powers. Sinunu-Towery, when she first took on the role, said she supported the idea of more power for the office but later reversed course, saying the office needed to take better advantage of the powers it already has.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aubrey said Tuesday that he thinks San José’s oversight program is a “really excellent model,” though he left open the possibility of change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Right now, what I’m looking at is what do we have, what can we use and how effectively can we use that model in the things that we’re doing there,” he said. “And then, we’re always open to entertaining other options there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983119/san-jose-city-council-appoints-new-independent-police-auditor","authors":["11906"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_17725","news_19954","news_20081","news_18541","news_1332","news_667"],"featImg":"news_11983130","label":"news"},"news_11983106":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983106","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983106","score":null,"sort":[1713294039000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"san-jose-police-department-sees-drop-in-officer-complaints","title":"San José Police Department Sees Drop in Officer Complaints","publishDate":1713294039,"format":"standard","headTitle":"San José Police Department Sees Drop in Officer Complaints | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11963782/qa-new-investigation-finds-most-people-injured-killed-by-san-jose-police-are-mentally-ill-or-intoxicated\">San José’s Police Department\u003c/a> saw a decrease in complaints against officers in 2023, following three straight years of increases, a new watchdog report found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In all, San José’s Police Department received 367 complaints about its officers in 2023, with 47 of those generated by the department, according to an annual oversight report from the San José Independent Police Auditor’s Office. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Sgt. Jorge Garibay, spokesperson, San José Police Department\"]‘The department has, and continues to, reinforce its commitment to officer accountability.’[/pullquote]By the end of 2023, the report said 285 officers received at least one conduct complaint, accounting for about 27% of San José’s 1,059 sworn officers. That represents a 6% reduction from 2022, when about a third of all officers received at least one conduct complaint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report, which was set to be discussed at the San José City Council meeting on Tuesday, is the first issued by Karyn Sinunu-Towery, the interim police auditor appointed after the city’s former IPA abruptly retired last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sgt. Jorge Garibay, a spokesperson for SJPD, told KQED in an email the decrease in complaints “is a direct reflection of increased training and officer accountability.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garibay highlighted a monthly newsletter sent to the department by Internal Affairs since June 2022 to share current trends and “remind department members of the policies and procedures governing the agency.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department also recognizes the number of complaints received annually is based on several factors, Garibay said. “The department has, and continues to, reinforce its commitment to officer accountability.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the percentage of overall complaints received in 2023 was down 6% from the year before, the rate at which complaints lodged against officers were determined to likely be true, increased by 6% from the year prior, the report said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 24% of complaints from members of the public about the conduct of officers were sustained, meaning they were found more likely than not to be true. That is the highest percentage of sustained complaints recorded by the IPA’s office in the past two decades, according to a review of previous years’ data by KQED News.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In San José, the Police Department’s Internal Affairs division investigates such complaints, which are reviewed by the IPA’s office. The report shows 306 conduct complaints were reviewed in 2023, with 74 closed as sustained. [aside postID=news_11966615 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/11/231106-SAN-JOSE-POLICE-01-KQED-1020x680.jpg']Complaints reviewed and tabulated for annual reports are not necessarily tied to complaints received that same year, as the investigation and auditing process can take up to a year in some cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Police Department declined to say what might be causing the increase in sustained complaints but noted it could also depend on many factors, including the nature and types of complaints reviewed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The allegations contained within the complaints also vary and range widely from rare, major misconduct to the frequent minor transgressions,” Garibay said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery told KQED that the department is a “really young” one, which could play a role in the sustained complaints increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The officers that are really on the ground, in the field dealing with citizens, the majority of those officers are still pretty young,” she said. “In the first five years, an officer is on duty, he or she is more likely to make mistakes than a seasoned officer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery’s oversight report is significantly shorter and includes much less information than most prior year reports authored under other auditors. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Karyn Sinunu-Towery, interim police auditor, City of San José\"]‘In the first five years an officer is on duty, he or she is more likely to make mistakes than a seasoned officer.’[/pullquote]Sinunu-Towery’s report, for example, declined to include breakdowns of how many officers received multiple complaints — and how many complaints they each received.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And though she suggested in an interview that the level of experience of officers on the streets might play a role in the number and types of complaints a department receives, her report did not include information on the experience level of officers named in complaints in 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She also did not include the ethnicities or other demographic information about the people bringing complaints against officers. She attributed her report’s differences, compared to prior-year reports, to a difference in “style.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery, a former 30-year Santa Clara County prosecutor, was appointed last summer to replace Shivaun Nurre, a longtime IPA employee who helmed the office from 2018 through June 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nurre’s unexpected retirement came about without much public notice, raising questions about her departure. It was later revealed that just before she retired, Nurre got into a heated verbal argument with a San José police officer at a public event \u003ca href=\"https://sanjosespotlight.com/san-jose-police-watchdog-had-drunken-argument-with-police-ahead-of-retirement/\">while she was drunk\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few months later, the assistant IPA, Eva Roa, resigned and wrote a letter lambasting city management and officials for largely ignoring the IPA’s office and criticizing Sinunu-Towery for being too trusting of police department investigators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A new permanent IPA is expected to be named during Tuesday’s meeting by the City Council.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The Independent Police Auditor’s annual report showed fewer complaints about officer conduct in 2023 after three consecutive years of increases.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713294393,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":22,"wordCount":921},"headData":{"title":"San José Police Department Sees Drop in Officer Complaints | KQED","description":"The Independent Police Auditor’s annual report showed fewer complaints about officer conduct in 2023 after three consecutive years of increases.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"San José Police Department Sees Drop in Officer Complaints","datePublished":"2024-04-16T19:00:39.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-16T19:06:33.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983106/san-jose-police-department-sees-drop-in-officer-complaints","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11963782/qa-new-investigation-finds-most-people-injured-killed-by-san-jose-police-are-mentally-ill-or-intoxicated\">San José’s Police Department\u003c/a> saw a decrease in complaints against officers in 2023, following three straight years of increases, a new watchdog report found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In all, San José’s Police Department received 367 complaints about its officers in 2023, with 47 of those generated by the department, according to an annual oversight report from the San José Independent Police Auditor’s Office. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘The department has, and continues to, reinforce its commitment to officer accountability.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Sgt. Jorge Garibay, spokesperson, San José Police Department","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>By the end of 2023, the report said 285 officers received at least one conduct complaint, accounting for about 27% of San José’s 1,059 sworn officers. That represents a 6% reduction from 2022, when about a third of all officers received at least one conduct complaint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report, which was set to be discussed at the San José City Council meeting on Tuesday, is the first issued by Karyn Sinunu-Towery, the interim police auditor appointed after the city’s former IPA abruptly retired last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sgt. Jorge Garibay, a spokesperson for SJPD, told KQED in an email the decrease in complaints “is a direct reflection of increased training and officer accountability.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garibay highlighted a monthly newsletter sent to the department by Internal Affairs since June 2022 to share current trends and “remind department members of the policies and procedures governing the agency.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department also recognizes the number of complaints received annually is based on several factors, Garibay said. “The department has, and continues to, reinforce its commitment to officer accountability.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the percentage of overall complaints received in 2023 was down 6% from the year before, the rate at which complaints lodged against officers were determined to likely be true, increased by 6% from the year prior, the report said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 24% of complaints from members of the public about the conduct of officers were sustained, meaning they were found more likely than not to be true. That is the highest percentage of sustained complaints recorded by the IPA’s office in the past two decades, according to a review of previous years’ data by KQED News.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In San José, the Police Department’s Internal Affairs division investigates such complaints, which are reviewed by the IPA’s office. The report shows 306 conduct complaints were reviewed in 2023, with 74 closed as sustained. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11966615","hero":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/11/231106-SAN-JOSE-POLICE-01-KQED-1020x680.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Complaints reviewed and tabulated for annual reports are not necessarily tied to complaints received that same year, as the investigation and auditing process can take up to a year in some cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Police Department declined to say what might be causing the increase in sustained complaints but noted it could also depend on many factors, including the nature and types of complaints reviewed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The allegations contained within the complaints also vary and range widely from rare, major misconduct to the frequent minor transgressions,” Garibay said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery told KQED that the department is a “really young” one, which could play a role in the sustained complaints increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The officers that are really on the ground, in the field dealing with citizens, the majority of those officers are still pretty young,” she said. “In the first five years, an officer is on duty, he or she is more likely to make mistakes than a seasoned officer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery’s oversight report is significantly shorter and includes much less information than most prior year reports authored under other auditors. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘In the first five years an officer is on duty, he or she is more likely to make mistakes than a seasoned officer.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Karyn Sinunu-Towery, interim police auditor, City of San José","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery’s report, for example, declined to include breakdowns of how many officers received multiple complaints — and how many complaints they each received.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And though she suggested in an interview that the level of experience of officers on the streets might play a role in the number and types of complaints a department receives, her report did not include information on the experience level of officers named in complaints in 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She also did not include the ethnicities or other demographic information about the people bringing complaints against officers. She attributed her report’s differences, compared to prior-year reports, to a difference in “style.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sinunu-Towery, a former 30-year Santa Clara County prosecutor, was appointed last summer to replace Shivaun Nurre, a longtime IPA employee who helmed the office from 2018 through June 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nurre’s unexpected retirement came about without much public notice, raising questions about her departure. It was later revealed that just before she retired, Nurre got into a heated verbal argument with a San José police officer at a public event \u003ca href=\"https://sanjosespotlight.com/san-jose-police-watchdog-had-drunken-argument-with-police-ahead-of-retirement/\">while she was drunk\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few months later, the assistant IPA, Eva Roa, resigned and wrote a letter lambasting city management and officials for largely ignoring the IPA’s office and criticizing Sinunu-Towery for being too trusting of police department investigators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A new permanent IPA is expected to be named during Tuesday’s meeting by the City Council.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983106/san-jose-police-department-sees-drop-in-officer-complaints","authors":["11906"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_17725","news_27626","news_19954","news_20081","news_18046","news_18541","news_667"],"featImg":"news_11983110","label":"news"},"news_11983091":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983091","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983091","score":null,"sort":[1713229338000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"recall-of-alameda-county-district-attorney-pamela-price-qualifies-for-a-vote","title":"Recall of Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price Qualifies for a Vote","publishDate":1713229338,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Recall of Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price Qualifies for a Vote | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>The recall campaign against Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price submitted enough valid signatures to qualify for an election, the Alameda County Registrar of Voters announced Monday. The Alameda County Board of Supervisors will decide when to hold a recall election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Save Alameda for Everyone, or SAFE, submitted 123,374 signatures supporting the recall to the registrar’s office on March 4. SAFE began organizing its campaign less than six months after Price took office and claims the progressive reforms Price is carrying out are decreasing public safety. Price supporters say the reforms are essential to creating a more fair justice system and argue increases in crime are more directly linked to underlying social conditions, like poverty and mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The registrar found that 74,757 of the signatures met the validation requirements, surpassing the county’s 73,195 threshold. Almost 49,000 signatures were invalidated. The registrar will present the results to the supervisors on April 30.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The results come after the registrar \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979648/hand-count-of-recall-petitions-pushes-test-of-alameda-county-district-attorney-down-the-line\">decided in March to complete a manual review of the signatures\u003c/a> after a sample review \u003ca href=\"https://www.acvote.org/acvote-assets/01_homepage/PDFs/recallsignaturecountupdate.pdf\">did not conclusively find\u003c/a> that the collected signatures met the required amount to qualify.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Board of Supervisors is required by state law to decide an election date within 14 days of the registrar completing their count. If the supervisors fail to select a date, county election officials will have five days to choose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall supporters have asked for an election to be held as soon as possible. It’s unclear whether the supervisors will apply county or state guidelines in deciding when to hold a recall election. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11978242/measure-b-to-change-alameda-county-recall-rules-leads-by-large-margin-in-early-returns\">Alameda County voters approved the county’s adoption of state recall rules in March\u003c/a> after the registrar began tabulating signatures.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State guidelines require recall elections to be scheduled between 88 and 125 calendar days from the registrar’s announcement. This would land an election in July or August.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under county rules, an election must be held within 35 to 40 days from the announcement but does not specify business days or calendar days. Depending on how the supervisors interpret the charter, county rules could land an election as early as May or as late as July.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall opponents have said they would prefer a recall election to occur in November, citing experts who say general elections tend to draw a larger turnout and produce more progressive results.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State rules allow recall elections to be scheduled up to 180 days in the future if it can be consolidated with a regularly scheduled election. This is designed to save money. The registrar estimates a special election could cost around $20 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Short of suing the county and delaying the election scheduling with a protracted court battle, a Price recall election that coincides with November’s presidential election is unlikely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua Spivak, a recall expert and senior research fellow at the California Constitution Center at Berkeley Law, said the conventional wisdom about higher turnout in general elections may not apply to recalls. He pointed to the recalls of three state governors — Gavin Newsom and Gray Davis in California, Scott Walker in Wisconsin — all saw greater turnout in the special elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If it’s like a ‘who cares’ election and you know who’s going to win, the turnout is going to be low,” Spivak told KQED. “If a lot of people are paying attention, then turnout may be high.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ultimately, the outcome of a Price recall may have more to do with whether enough people pay attention to the issue rather than when an election is held.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Money to host campaign events and run ads is necessary to gain people’s attention. This is where the recall campaign, \u003ca href=\"https://oaklandside.org/2024/02/02/recall-campaign-district-attorney-pamela-price-alameda-county-who-is-funding/\">funded primarily by wealthy real estate investors\u003c/a>, has the upper hand. As of the last campaign filing at the end of January, recall supporters had more than $400,000 in the bank. Price’s Protect the Win campaign is so low on cash that it let the contract with its campaign manager expire. The campaign had under $50,000 in January.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recalls that make it to the ballot tend to be successful, Spivak said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The challenge is getting to the ballot. If they get to the ballot, about 61% of recalls nationwide result in removal, and another 6% result in resignation,” he added. “So you’re talking two-thirds of the time.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The Alameda County Board of Supervisors will decide when to hold a recall election.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713291170,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":750},"headData":{"title":"Recall of Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price Qualifies for a Vote | KQED","description":"The Alameda County Board of Supervisors will decide when to hold a recall election.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Recall of Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price Qualifies for a Vote","datePublished":"2024-04-16T01:02:18.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-16T18:12:50.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983091/recall-of-alameda-county-district-attorney-pamela-price-qualifies-for-a-vote","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The recall campaign against Alameda County District Attorney Pamela Price submitted enough valid signatures to qualify for an election, the Alameda County Registrar of Voters announced Monday. The Alameda County Board of Supervisors will decide when to hold a recall election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Save Alameda for Everyone, or SAFE, submitted 123,374 signatures supporting the recall to the registrar’s office on March 4. SAFE began organizing its campaign less than six months after Price took office and claims the progressive reforms Price is carrying out are decreasing public safety. Price supporters say the reforms are essential to creating a more fair justice system and argue increases in crime are more directly linked to underlying social conditions, like poverty and mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The registrar found that 74,757 of the signatures met the validation requirements, surpassing the county’s 73,195 threshold. Almost 49,000 signatures were invalidated. The registrar will present the results to the supervisors on April 30.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The results come after the registrar \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979648/hand-count-of-recall-petitions-pushes-test-of-alameda-county-district-attorney-down-the-line\">decided in March to complete a manual review of the signatures\u003c/a> after a sample review \u003ca href=\"https://www.acvote.org/acvote-assets/01_homepage/PDFs/recallsignaturecountupdate.pdf\">did not conclusively find\u003c/a> that the collected signatures met the required amount to qualify.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Board of Supervisors is required by state law to decide an election date within 14 days of the registrar completing their count. If the supervisors fail to select a date, county election officials will have five days to choose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall supporters have asked for an election to be held as soon as possible. It’s unclear whether the supervisors will apply county or state guidelines in deciding when to hold a recall election. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11978242/measure-b-to-change-alameda-county-recall-rules-leads-by-large-margin-in-early-returns\">Alameda County voters approved the county’s adoption of state recall rules in March\u003c/a> after the registrar began tabulating signatures.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State guidelines require recall elections to be scheduled between 88 and 125 calendar days from the registrar’s announcement. This would land an election in July or August.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under county rules, an election must be held within 35 to 40 days from the announcement but does not specify business days or calendar days. Depending on how the supervisors interpret the charter, county rules could land an election as early as May or as late as July.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall opponents have said they would prefer a recall election to occur in November, citing experts who say general elections tend to draw a larger turnout and produce more progressive results.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State rules allow recall elections to be scheduled up to 180 days in the future if it can be consolidated with a regularly scheduled election. This is designed to save money. The registrar estimates a special election could cost around $20 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Short of suing the county and delaying the election scheduling with a protracted court battle, a Price recall election that coincides with November’s presidential election is unlikely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua Spivak, a recall expert and senior research fellow at the California Constitution Center at Berkeley Law, said the conventional wisdom about higher turnout in general elections may not apply to recalls. He pointed to the recalls of three state governors — Gavin Newsom and Gray Davis in California, Scott Walker in Wisconsin — all saw greater turnout in the special elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If it’s like a ‘who cares’ election and you know who’s going to win, the turnout is going to be low,” Spivak told KQED. “If a lot of people are paying attention, then turnout may be high.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ultimately, the outcome of a Price recall may have more to do with whether enough people pay attention to the issue rather than when an election is held.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Money to host campaign events and run ads is necessary to gain people’s attention. This is where the recall campaign, \u003ca href=\"https://oaklandside.org/2024/02/02/recall-campaign-district-attorney-pamela-price-alameda-county-who-is-funding/\">funded primarily by wealthy real estate investors\u003c/a>, has the upper hand. As of the last campaign filing at the end of January, recall supporters had more than $400,000 in the bank. Price’s Protect the Win campaign is so low on cash that it let the contract with its campaign manager expire. The campaign had under $50,000 in January.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recalls that make it to the ballot tend to be successful, Spivak said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The challenge is getting to the ballot. If they get to the ballot, about 61% of recalls nationwide result in removal, and another 6% result in resignation,” he added. “So you’re talking two-thirds of the time.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983091/recall-of-alameda-county-district-attorney-pamela-price-qualifies-for-a-vote","authors":["11772"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_260","news_17725","news_27626","news_18","news_24461","news_17968"],"featImg":"news_11983096","label":"news"},"news_11982973":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11982973","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11982973","score":null,"sort":[1713207657000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"feds-abruptly-close-east-bay-womens-prison-following-sexual-abuse-scandals","title":"Feds Abruptly Close East Bay Women’s Prison Following Sexual Abuse Scandals","publishDate":1713207657,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Feds Abruptly Close East Bay Women’s Prison Following Sexual Abuse Scandals | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This story was updated on April 15, 2024 at 2:30 p.m.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A federal women’s prison in the East Bay plagued by sexual assault allegations for years has been ordered to close, officials at the Federal Bureau of Prisons told KQED.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Scott Taylor, spokesperson, Federal Bureau of Prisons\"]‘We have determined that FCI Dublin is not meeting expected standards and that the best course of action is to close the facility.’[/pullquote]The Federal Correctional Institution, Dublin, is facing nearly 60 lawsuits from women incarcerated at the prison and a class-action lawsuit alleging sexual assault and retaliation for reporting incidents from guards and other prison officials. Eight former prison staff, including the former warden and chaplain, have been charged and seven have been convicted or pleaded guilty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have determined that FCI Dublin is not meeting expected standards and that the best course of action is to close the facility,” Scott Taylor, a spokesperson for the BOP, said in an email. “The closure of the institution may be temporary but certainly will result in a mission change.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The most recent series of scandals at FCI Dublin first started unraveling following an investigation by The Associated Press in 2021 that found a culture of abuse and cover-ups that had persisted for years at the low-security federal women’s prison, which has more than 650 inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The abrupt closure comes shortly after a federal judge ordered an independent “special master” to oversee mandatory changes at FCI Dublin. U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers appointed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982014/judge-chooses-top-pick-for-special-master-to-oversee-womens-prison-following-rampant-abuse\">Wendy Still\u003c/a>, an expert in the Prison Rape Elimination Act, to the position.[aside postID=news_11980960 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/GettyImages-1181905632-1020x680.jpg']Women currently incarcerated at FCI Dublin will be transferred to a new location. Officials, however, did not share the timing of the relocations and said planning for the facility’s deactivation is ongoing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No employees are losing their jobs because of the relocation, officials said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As we determine placement, each woman will be assessed, and their programming needs will be taken into account,” Taylor said. “We will endeavor to keep them as close to their release locations as possible and ensure that they have access to counsel at their receiving institution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kara Janssen, an attorney representing plaintiffs, said concerns over how the relocations will be handled were discussed in a court hearing on Monday morning.[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Kara Janssen, an attorney representing plaintiffs\"]‘It may be that FCI Dublin needs to close or should have been closed a long time ago. Right now, there are more questions than answers in terms of what is happening to the people who are still housed there.’[/pullquote]“It may be that FCI Dublin needs to close or should have been closed a long time ago. Right now, there are more questions than answers in terms of what is happening to the people who are still housed there,” Janssen told KQED, adding that they “want to make sure people are properly assessed” and “don’t just get thrown into other institutions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, the court issued a subsequent order noting that the special master will review all the cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former incarcerated person, Jennifer Davidson, told KQED on Monday she felt the closure was impending.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw this coming; it definitely needed to be shut down,” she said. “They call us snitches; they judge us for speaking out about our experiences, and that’s wrong.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Alex Hall contributed to this report. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The closure comes after a judge ordered independent third-party oversight for the scandal-plagued prison. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713223299,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":14,"wordCount":631},"headData":{"title":"Feds Abruptly Close East Bay Women’s Prison Following Sexual Abuse Scandals | KQED","description":"The closure comes after a judge ordered independent third-party oversight for the scandal-plagued prison. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Feds Abruptly Close East Bay Women’s Prison Following Sexual Abuse Scandals","datePublished":"2024-04-15T19:00:57.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-15T23:21:39.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11982973/feds-abruptly-close-east-bay-womens-prison-following-sexual-abuse-scandals","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This story was updated on April 15, 2024 at 2:30 p.m.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A federal women’s prison in the East Bay plagued by sexual assault allegations for years has been ordered to close, officials at the Federal Bureau of Prisons told KQED.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘We have determined that FCI Dublin is not meeting expected standards and that the best course of action is to close the facility.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Scott Taylor, spokesperson, Federal Bureau of Prisons","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The Federal Correctional Institution, Dublin, is facing nearly 60 lawsuits from women incarcerated at the prison and a class-action lawsuit alleging sexual assault and retaliation for reporting incidents from guards and other prison officials. Eight former prison staff, including the former warden and chaplain, have been charged and seven have been convicted or pleaded guilty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have determined that FCI Dublin is not meeting expected standards and that the best course of action is to close the facility,” Scott Taylor, a spokesperson for the BOP, said in an email. “The closure of the institution may be temporary but certainly will result in a mission change.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The most recent series of scandals at FCI Dublin first started unraveling following an investigation by The Associated Press in 2021 that found a culture of abuse and cover-ups that had persisted for years at the low-security federal women’s prison, which has more than 650 inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The abrupt closure comes shortly after a federal judge ordered an independent “special master” to oversee mandatory changes at FCI Dublin. U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers appointed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982014/judge-chooses-top-pick-for-special-master-to-oversee-womens-prison-following-rampant-abuse\">Wendy Still\u003c/a>, an expert in the Prison Rape Elimination Act, to the position.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11980960","hero":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/GettyImages-1181905632-1020x680.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Women currently incarcerated at FCI Dublin will be transferred to a new location. Officials, however, did not share the timing of the relocations and said planning for the facility’s deactivation is ongoing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No employees are losing their jobs because of the relocation, officials said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As we determine placement, each woman will be assessed, and their programming needs will be taken into account,” Taylor said. “We will endeavor to keep them as close to their release locations as possible and ensure that they have access to counsel at their receiving institution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kara Janssen, an attorney representing plaintiffs, said concerns over how the relocations will be handled were discussed in a court hearing on Monday morning.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘It may be that FCI Dublin needs to close or should have been closed a long time ago. Right now, there are more questions than answers in terms of what is happening to the people who are still housed there.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Kara Janssen, an attorney representing plaintiffs","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“It may be that FCI Dublin needs to close or should have been closed a long time ago. Right now, there are more questions than answers in terms of what is happening to the people who are still housed there,” Janssen told KQED, adding that they “want to make sure people are properly assessed” and “don’t just get thrown into other institutions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, the court issued a subsequent order noting that the special master will review all the cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former incarcerated person, Jennifer Davidson, told KQED on Monday she felt the closure was impending.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw this coming; it definitely needed to be shut down,” she said. “They call us snitches; they judge us for speaking out about our experiences, and that’s wrong.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Alex Hall contributed to this report. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11982973/feds-abruptly-close-east-bay-womens-prison-following-sexual-abuse-scandals","authors":["11840"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_17725","news_3543","news_33723","news_27626","news_24020","news_1471","news_2700","news_1527","news_32043"],"featImg":"news_11982976","label":"news"},"news_11982801":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11982801","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11982801","score":null,"sort":[1712955602000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"stockton-settles-6-million-lawsuit-over-mans-police-restraint-death","title":"Stockton Settles $6 Million Lawsuit Over Man's Police Restraint Death","publishDate":1712955602,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Stockton Settles $6 Million Lawsuit Over Man’s Police Restraint Death | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>The city of Stockton has agreed to settle a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the family of Shayne Sutherland, a 29-year-old who died after being held face down by Stockton Police officers in 2020, for $6 million, the family’s attorneys announced Thursday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland’s mother, Karen Sutherland, said nothing could replace her son, but the settlement feels like an acknowledgment of responsibility from Stockton Police that she has been hoping for. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Karen Sutherland, mother of Shayne Sutherland\"]‘It shows that they’re taking responsibility for their police officers causing the wrongful death of my son.’[/pullquote]“It shows that they’re taking responsibility for their police officers causing the wrongful death of my son,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Stockton Police Department did not respond to requests for comment about the settlement and would not discuss the case for an earlier story reported by The California Newsroom and The California Reporting Project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland died after an early morning run-in with Stockton Police Officers Ronald Zalunardo and John Afanasiev at an AMPM convenience store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland had been acting strangely in the store, wandering in and out and asking to use the store phone and the clerk’s cellphone, according to police reports, surveillance footage and 911 recordings. He called 911 himself and said he needed a taxi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The store clerk also called 911 to report that Sutherland was threatening him with the wine bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the officers arrived, Sutherland followed them outside, sat against a wall as instructed and answered the officers’ questions. After a while, Sutherland stood up suddenly, and officers tackled him to the ground, holding him face down for about eight minutes, according to body camera footage. [aside postID=news_11977145 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-36-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg']The Sutherland family filed the federal civil rights suit against the city of Stockton, Officers Zalunardo and Afanasiev and former Stockton Police Chief Eric Jones in 2021, citing wrongful death, negligence and excessive use of force.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland left behind a son, 8, and daughter, 7. At the press conference announcing the settlement, his mother spoke of the hole his death left in their lives. His son wears a keychain with a photo of Sutherland, she said, and his daughter asks about why he died so young.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The settlement funds will go to Sutherland’s two children and his mother. The Stockton City Council has approved the settlement, but a judge still needs to sign off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts have warned for decades that holding people face down for prolonged periods can compress a person’s torso and restrict their ability to breathe and pump blood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/posasph.pdf\">1995 U.S. Department of Justice bulletin\u003c/a> warned that face-down holds — known as prone restraint — can result in positional asphyxia or not being able to breathe due to the position of the body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977047\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977047\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland sits by her son Shayne’s gravesite at the Park View Cemetery in Manteca, Calif., on Feb. 24, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>New research published in 2022 also notes that prone restraint \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35869602/\">may cause cardiac arrest\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The DOJ bulletin advises officers to turn people onto their sides or sit them up as soon as they’re handcuffed to allow them to breathe more easily. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Seth Stoughton, law professor and former police officer, University of South Carolina\"]‘Once someone has been handcuffed, you get them off their stomach, even if they’re still struggling.’[/pullquote]Zalunardo and Afanasiev handcuffed Sutherland within 30 seconds but didn’t turn him over until nearly eight minutes later. Afanasiev put his weight on Sutherland’s back for about half of that time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Seth Stoughton, a former police officer who now teaches law at the University of South Carolina, said that deaths following prone restraint are easy to prevent as long as officers follow this procedure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would say any, or at least damn near any defensive-tactics use-of-force trainer, any police expert, they’re going to tell you: Once someone has been handcuffed, you get them off their stomach, even if they’re still struggling,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California passed a law, AB 490, in 2021 that \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB490\">banned police from using maneuvers that put people at significant risk of positional asphyxia\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Assemblymember Mike Gipson, who authored the bill, is a former police officer. He said the bill was inspired by the deaths of numerous people, including George Floyd and Angelo Quinto, who died after being held face down by police officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and Antioch, California, respectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977052\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977052\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland holds a photo collage of her son Shayne at Park View Cemetery, where he is buried, in Manteca, Calif., on Feb. 24, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gipson said the potential deadliness of prone restraint necessitates a total ban.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We cannot afford these techniques to be used at all,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gipson stressed the need for more comprehensive training to prevent these deaths and accountability for those who have died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/28/california-police-officers-prone-restraint-deaths\">February 2024 investigation\u003c/a> by the California Newsroom and the California Reporting Project found that between 2016 and 2022, at least 22 people died in California after being held face down by police. [pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Assemblymember Mike Gipson\"]‘We cannot afford these techniques to be used at all.’[/pullquote]At least two of those people died after AB 490 went into effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the Sutherland case and decades of warnings by experts about the dangers of prone restraint, the Stockton Police Department made \u003ca href=\"https://cms3.revize.com/revize/stockton/Documents/Services/Police%20Department/Police%20News%20and%20Information/General%20Orders/300%20Use%20of%20Force.pdf\">an updated use-of-force policy effective on March 11, 2024\u003c/a>, that states that positional and restraint asphyxia “remain the subject of debate among experts and medical professionals” and “are not universally recognized medical conditions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department did not respond to requests for comment about the updated policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Families of people in California who have died following prone restraint have won at least $41 million in lawsuits across the state, according to court documents and press reports obtained by the California Newsroom and the California Reporting Project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Sutherland settlement is not included in that tally, as a judge hasn’t approved the agreement. [aside postID=news_11949359 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/05/RS64219_010_KQED_SeanMooreFamily_03312023-qut-1020x680.jpg']The San Joaquin County Medical Examiner attributed Sutherland’s death to a cardiac arrest and noted that meth intoxication also played a role. The death was ruled accidental.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the Sutherland family commissioned a second autopsy as part of the lawsuit. Former San Joaquin County Medical Examiner Dr. Bennet Omalu, who performed the procedure, ruled Sutherland’s death a homicide and said he died due to positional asphyxia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Karen Sutherland said she hopes the hefty settlement will help deter other police departments from similar practices and encourage officers to follow their pledge to protect and serve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Because what happened that day on Oct. 8, 2020, with my son as he’s begging for his life and not a threat at all, they weren’t practicing what they should have been,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I want this to never, ever happen again,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was co-reported by The California Reporting Project and The California Newsroom, a collaboration of public media outlets across the state. Special thanks to Berkeley Journalism’s Investigative Reporting Program, Stanford’s Big Local News, and the Ira A. Lipman Center for Journalism and Civil and Human Rights.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Shayne Sutherland died in 2020 after being held face down for about 8 minutes by 2 Stockton Police officers.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1712954544,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":32,"wordCount":1292},"headData":{"title":"Stockton Settles $6 Million Lawsuit Over Man's Police Restraint Death | KQED","description":"Shayne Sutherland died in 2020 after being held face down for about 8 minutes by 2 Stockton Police officers.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Stockton Settles $6 Million Lawsuit Over Man's Police Restraint Death","datePublished":"2024-04-12T21:00:02.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-12T20:42:24.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/0af137ef-751e-4b19-a055-aaef00d2d578/ffca7e9f-6831-41c5-bcaf-aaef00f5a073/9b02a600-92ef-4bf4-aef3-b15000f7ca0a/audio.mp3","sticky":false,"nprByline":"Emily Zentner (The California Newsroom), Lisa Pickoff-White (The California Reporting Project)","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11982801/stockton-settles-6-million-lawsuit-over-mans-police-restraint-death","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The city of Stockton has agreed to settle a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the family of Shayne Sutherland, a 29-year-old who died after being held face down by Stockton Police officers in 2020, for $6 million, the family’s attorneys announced Thursday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland’s mother, Karen Sutherland, said nothing could replace her son, but the settlement feels like an acknowledgment of responsibility from Stockton Police that she has been hoping for. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘It shows that they’re taking responsibility for their police officers causing the wrongful death of my son.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Karen Sutherland, mother of Shayne Sutherland","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“It shows that they’re taking responsibility for their police officers causing the wrongful death of my son,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Stockton Police Department did not respond to requests for comment about the settlement and would not discuss the case for an earlier story reported by The California Newsroom and The California Reporting Project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland died after an early morning run-in with Stockton Police Officers Ronald Zalunardo and John Afanasiev at an AMPM convenience store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland had been acting strangely in the store, wandering in and out and asking to use the store phone and the clerk’s cellphone, according to police reports, surveillance footage and 911 recordings. He called 911 himself and said he needed a taxi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The store clerk also called 911 to report that Sutherland was threatening him with the wine bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the officers arrived, Sutherland followed them outside, sat against a wall as instructed and answered the officers’ questions. After a while, Sutherland stood up suddenly, and officers tackled him to the ground, holding him face down for about eight minutes, according to body camera footage. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11977145","hero":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-36-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The Sutherland family filed the federal civil rights suit against the city of Stockton, Officers Zalunardo and Afanasiev and former Stockton Police Chief Eric Jones in 2021, citing wrongful death, negligence and excessive use of force.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland left behind a son, 8, and daughter, 7. At the press conference announcing the settlement, his mother spoke of the hole his death left in their lives. His son wears a keychain with a photo of Sutherland, she said, and his daughter asks about why he died so young.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The settlement funds will go to Sutherland’s two children and his mother. The Stockton City Council has approved the settlement, but a judge still needs to sign off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts have warned for decades that holding people face down for prolonged periods can compress a person’s torso and restrict their ability to breathe and pump blood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/posasph.pdf\">1995 U.S. Department of Justice bulletin\u003c/a> warned that face-down holds — known as prone restraint — can result in positional asphyxia or not being able to breathe due to the position of the body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977047\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977047\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland sits by her son Shayne’s gravesite at the Park View Cemetery in Manteca, Calif., on Feb. 24, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>New research published in 2022 also notes that prone restraint \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35869602/\">may cause cardiac arrest\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The DOJ bulletin advises officers to turn people onto their sides or sit them up as soon as they’re handcuffed to allow them to breathe more easily. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘Once someone has been handcuffed, you get them off their stomach, even if they’re still struggling.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Seth Stoughton, law professor and former police officer, University of South Carolina","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Zalunardo and Afanasiev handcuffed Sutherland within 30 seconds but didn’t turn him over until nearly eight minutes later. Afanasiev put his weight on Sutherland’s back for about half of that time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Seth Stoughton, a former police officer who now teaches law at the University of South Carolina, said that deaths following prone restraint are easy to prevent as long as officers follow this procedure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would say any, or at least damn near any defensive-tactics use-of-force trainer, any police expert, they’re going to tell you: Once someone has been handcuffed, you get them off their stomach, even if they’re still struggling,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California passed a law, AB 490, in 2021 that \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB490\">banned police from using maneuvers that put people at significant risk of positional asphyxia\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Assemblymember Mike Gipson, who authored the bill, is a former police officer. He said the bill was inspired by the deaths of numerous people, including George Floyd and Angelo Quinto, who died after being held face down by police officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and Antioch, California, respectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977052\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977052\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-26-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland holds a photo collage of her son Shayne at Park View Cemetery, where he is buried, in Manteca, Calif., on Feb. 24, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gipson said the potential deadliness of prone restraint necessitates a total ban.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We cannot afford these techniques to be used at all,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gipson stressed the need for more comprehensive training to prevent these deaths and accountability for those who have died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/28/california-police-officers-prone-restraint-deaths\">February 2024 investigation\u003c/a> by the California Newsroom and the California Reporting Project found that between 2016 and 2022, at least 22 people died in California after being held face down by police. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘We cannot afford these techniques to be used at all.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Assemblymember Mike Gipson","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>At least two of those people died after AB 490 went into effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the Sutherland case and decades of warnings by experts about the dangers of prone restraint, the Stockton Police Department made \u003ca href=\"https://cms3.revize.com/revize/stockton/Documents/Services/Police%20Department/Police%20News%20and%20Information/General%20Orders/300%20Use%20of%20Force.pdf\">an updated use-of-force policy effective on March 11, 2024\u003c/a>, that states that positional and restraint asphyxia “remain the subject of debate among experts and medical professionals” and “are not universally recognized medical conditions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department did not respond to requests for comment about the updated policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Families of people in California who have died following prone restraint have won at least $41 million in lawsuits across the state, according to court documents and press reports obtained by the California Newsroom and the California Reporting Project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Sutherland settlement is not included in that tally, as a judge hasn’t approved the agreement. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11949359","hero":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/05/RS64219_010_KQED_SeanMooreFamily_03312023-qut-1020x680.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The San Joaquin County Medical Examiner attributed Sutherland’s death to a cardiac arrest and noted that meth intoxication also played a role. The death was ruled accidental.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the Sutherland family commissioned a second autopsy as part of the lawsuit. Former San Joaquin County Medical Examiner Dr. Bennet Omalu, who performed the procedure, ruled Sutherland’s death a homicide and said he died due to positional asphyxia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Karen Sutherland said she hopes the hefty settlement will help deter other police departments from similar practices and encourage officers to follow their pledge to protect and serve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Because what happened that day on Oct. 8, 2020, with my son as he’s begging for his life and not a threat at all, they weren’t practicing what they should have been,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I want this to never, ever happen again,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was co-reported by The California Reporting Project and The California Newsroom, a collaboration of public media outlets across the state. Special thanks to Berkeley Journalism’s Investigative Reporting Program, Stanford’s Big Local News, and the Ira A. Lipman Center for Journalism and Civil and Human Rights.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11982801/stockton-settles-6-million-lawsuit-over-mans-police-restraint-death","authors":["byline_news_11982801"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_17725","news_19954","news_22050","news_20081","news_18046"],"featImg":"news_11977404","label":"news_72"},"news_11982244":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11982244","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11982244","score":null,"sort":[1712656845000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"8-last-stand-s2-new-folsom","title":"8. Last Stand | S2: New Folsom","publishDate":1712656845,"format":"audio","headTitle":"8. Last Stand | S2: New Folsom | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33521,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After his son’s death, Valentino Rodriguez Sr. waited for the warden of New Folsom prison to call him. That call never came. In our season finale, we walk through the gates of New Folsom to ask the warden for answers. We also get a rare glimpse inside the world of correctional officer discipline and hear from Sgt. Kevin Steele in his own words.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7467271989\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whistleblower resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thelamplighterproject.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Lamplighter Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://thesignalsnetwork.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Signals Network\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://empowr.us/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">EMPOWR\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowersofamerica.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblowers of America\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistleblower.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Government Accountability Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowers.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">National Whistleblower Center\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistlebloweraid.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblower Aid\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads-up that this episode references discriminatory language and discusses suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. We’ve also included resources for whistleblowers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After his son, Valentino Rodriguez, died in October 2020, Val Sr. had waited for someone from the prison to call him, to acknowledge his son’s passing. A few months went by, and when that call didn’t come, he sent off an email.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am Val’s dad. These are pictures of my wife and Val’s brother.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Attached to it were photos of Valentino on the day he graduated from the academy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I remember his graduation day, how proud he was. I remember the speech from that podium as clear as the day he was born.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The email was addressed to the head of CDCR, along with some of the people that Val Sr. felt were critical in what had happened to Valentino.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It could have been avoided when he asked for help but was swept under the rug to protect those involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Including his boss, Sergeant David Anderson…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">His sergeant that was witness to so many abusive texts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The chief deputy warden, Gena Jones, and the warden, Jeff Lynch-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My son was also left with your betrayal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… the boss of the whole institution. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not had so much as a knock on the door, an apology, or any acknowledgement of his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Val Sr. did get a response to this email from the head of CDCR at the time. She passed on her condolences and said the agency was investigating his son’s case, but there was only silence from the warden. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, in March of last year, about eight months into our investigation, we got some news. We were gonna be able to go on a rare press tour at New Folsom Prison, and talk to the warden face to face. Val Sr. sent us a list of questions he wanted us to ask. Like, who had leaked information about the warden’s private meeting with Valentino? Why had the warden banned Kevin Steele from the prison? And why hadn’t he ever called? Julie, my reporting partner, also reached out to Valentino’s widow, Mimy Rodriguez, to tell her the news.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re going to the prison next week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We asked for a sit-down with the warden, and we were told no. Um, but then we were told that he’ll be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I’m getting ready for that. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How… That’s exciting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Got any questions for the warden?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanna know what was going through his head when he found out Val passed. I wanna know what he felt when he sat across from Valentino. How did you feel when you found out? Did you get sick? Did you throw up? I… these things, I just… they probably seem minuscule or silly, but I w-… I just wanna know… was it just another officer for him? I just wanna know. Did you care? Did it matter to you? Do you remember his face the way I do? Or his laugh, or his gap teeth, or his love for ketchup? Do you remember his reports? Do you remember how hard he worked to make you happy, the way he worked hard to make his parents happy? Or, are you just gonna disregard that and say, “He was a great officer,” and give me some generic answer? I want him to be honest, and I want him to respect the people that come in and out of that prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we prepared to walk through the gates of New Folsom Prison, we were quite literally now going to be following in the footsteps of Officer Valentino Rodriguez and Sergeant Kevin Steele, and I kept thinking about their words to each other on the last day of Valentino’s life. “There are two sides over there.” Which side of the prison would we get to see? I’m Sukey Lewis, and this is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Season Two: New Folsom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Automated:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In one mile, turn left onto Folsom Prison Road.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, we’re just passing past the sign for Folsom State Prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> we’re… it’s actually this lovely pastoral scene. You have this-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a beautiful spring day as Julie and I drive up the winding road in the Sierra Nevada foothills toward New Folsom Prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, frick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just I’m just… I don’t usually stress out, but I haven’t been in a prison for a while.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here we go, CSP-SAC, and yeah. You’re feeling it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, I’m feeling it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie’s bracing herself to go into this place where we’ve been invited, but we’re not exactly welcome, and where everything we see is gonna be tightly controlled.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, here they are.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We park and then walk up to the outer security checkpoint of this huge facility. There’s a reporting team from the LA Times here today as well for the press tour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to meet you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LA Times Reporter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The LA Times.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to meet you. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughing]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sources have told us that the prison has been prepping for this for days, and the entourage that comes out to greet us is impressive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One of the biggest I’ve ever seen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About a dozen people, who each introduce themselves, starting with the biggest of the bigwigs here today, the associate director for all of California’s high-security prisons, who then introduces the man we’ve been waiting so long to speak with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Associate Director:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of ’em, and, uh, this is Jeff Warden’s prison, er, uh, Jeff Lynch’s prison. (laughing) \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jeff Lynch, warden, CSP Sacramento.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warden Jeff Lynch, he’s a tall man with a broad chest, light brown hair. He looks a little like the actor Jeff Daniels, and today, he’s wearing a suit jacket, a pink shirt, and a tie. Down the line from him, we meet two associate wardens, two captains, a lieutenant, and people from healthcare and public relations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, cool, um, we may have to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughing]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> ask you your names again along the way. That’s a lot to remember.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tour Guide:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, the, the plan is-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We walk past some staff residences and lower security areas that are empty right now and then under the eye of the tall, blue tower, where we know a guard sits with a Mini-14 rifle looking out over everything. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…Chain link fence on either side, big mirrors overhead, and there’s two little, kind of, windows. This is the same process that correctional staff go through when they come to work every day. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once inside the main complex, off to my left, I see a gray cement building with those very narrow windows. On the side of it, there’s a letter and a number: B8.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, so that looks like the B8 unit… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The unit where Luis Giovanny Aguilar was killed in the day room. That’s not part of today’s tour. Instead, they’re taking us to what’s called the short-term restricted housing unit. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…And there’s short term restrictive housing kinda to the front and the left.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s the new version of the SHU, or solitary confinement — the place where Dion Green was held after the murder and where he says officers were spreading rumors about him to get him killed. Julie’s walking next to the warden as they go inside.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think this prison is… is this prison dangerous any more than others?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It has days where it’s had dangerous events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, and then, it’s had many days where it hasn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s what we’re being shown: a calm day. There’s a class going on in a treatment room, where men talk to a counselor about regulating their emotions. But I notice, even as that class is going on, these men are chained to the chairs they sit in. Next, the warden shows us the solitary cages outside the unit. Officially, they’re called IEYs, or individual exercise yards, but incarcerated people refer to them as the dog cages. The entourage of CDCR staff and reporters chat and laugh behind me as I approach a person looking out through the fencing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m a reporter with KQED Public Radio. Are you, um, down to talk to me today or no?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Depending on what.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just to ask you how your days is going and what your experience is here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I’ll talk.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Um, what’s your name?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, Patrick Anthony Bradley.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bradley says he’s been at this prison for six years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re gonna paint the pretty picture like it’s all good, but it’s, it’s really not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmm. What’s the, the picture that you would paint?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is, this is a terrible \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is terrible. Like, this is a terrible… it’s inhumane for anybody, for a, a, a patient, a inmate, a human being. Just conduct is disgusting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s kind of a strange scene. Like, I’m standing in between two worlds — the world Bradley lives in that’s bounded by the fence between us, a reality in his telling of corruption and darkness, and the world behind me represented by the warden and all the other prison officials standing just feet away, who repeatedly tell us their mission is safety and rehabilitation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They might, you know, clean, clean today, you know, make it look good, polish and all that, but it’s just a terrible place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm, yeah. Um, were you here when, the, the homicide happened in B8?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, probably.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s probably something you should be asking the feds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what I mean? So…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bradley raises his eyebrows meaningfully. I thank him for his time and turn around to try and get some more of my questions in front of the warden. One of my biggest questions was about use of force, what we’d seen in the data, and the whole reason we’d started investigating New Folsom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warden Lynch, I was gonna ask you. I know that their… like, use of force here at, um, CSP-SAC is a lot higher than any other prison in the state, and I was just wondering if you know kind of why that is or if it has something to do with the population here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re part of the high-security mission, which is a conglomerate of all of-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was expecting Lynch to give me some kind of explanation about how this prison is one of 10 high-security prisons, which means they’ve got people who’ve committed really serious crimes and have mental health issues. And he started with that, but then, Lynch totally surprised me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re probably pretty similar with the number of incidents for the mission that we belong in. If you-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. It’s, like, 30% higher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Than, uh, where?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All the other level fours.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, the, the data that, uh, we most recently looked at… Hey, Dana.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden calls over the then press secretary, Dana Simas.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The data that we were looking at for, uh, the use of force?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What about it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I was just wan-… I was just wanting, uh, to see if he had th-… uh, understanding of, like, why it’s so much higher here than everywhere else.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, that’s not really the case. Where are you seeing that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, in the data that CDCR gave me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, uh, you mean on the CompStat data?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, um, I would need to verify-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… ’cause I’ve looked at the data, and the data shows that, at SAC, the use of force rates are actually really comparable to other institutions that have this same level of population.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this tour, we double-checked our numbers and brought in help from a statistician in UC Berkeley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What they found is that the disparity was actually even greater than I’d thought. Between 2009 and 2023, the last year we have data for, officers at this prison used force at a rate almost 40% higher than any other prison in the state. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the course of months, we followed up repeatedly with CDCR about these numbers. At first, a spokesperson said the agency couldn’t confirm our analysis. When we asked for their analysis showing that New Folsom was in line with other high-security prisons, they didn’t respond. When we asked how the warden could be unaware of what an outlier his institution was, they didn’t respond. When we asked why there were so many more of these troubling incidents that we talked about earlier in this series, like what happened to the men Kevin Steele interviewed in the hospital, they didn’t respond. But as we continued on this tour, the warden assured me…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We, we look at it all the time and are always, um, aware of a lot of the, uh, the incidents that happen here, and we’ve got policies we follow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I move on to some of my questions about protocols that had seemed to allow the B8 homicide to happen, starting with their housing protocol regarding documented enemies like Dion Green and Michael Brit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you comment on, like, why Michael Britt was housed with Dion Green in B8 when that stabbing happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Restricted housing in general, and I can’t comment on Michael Britt, um, but restricted housing in general has the ability to confine inmates in, in, uh, secure areas that if enemy concerns existed wouldn’t ordinarily be, um, exposed to each other.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">His answer is kind of jargony, but what he’s saying is that really high-security housing units like B8 are set up so that enemies shouldn’t ever be able to get at each other, but he doesn’t address the failures that made that attack possible. And so, I follow up, trying to understand what happened after the attack. Why weren’t the three guys who’d tried to kill Brit separated either?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say a stabbing or an assault happens, and it’s coordinated between people, is it policy to then separate them from each other?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, I don’t know that there’s an actual policy that says… Uh, are you saying between the enemies?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Between in- inmates, so they are, like, coordinating, if they coordinate an assault on another inmate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know that there’s a policy that requires that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, um, but it-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That would fall under saf-… normal safety and security, um, classifications.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Dana Simas stepping in here again. She says, yes, maybe there’s not a specific policy that says this, but in general, yes, they separate crime partners. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And how do you deal with that if they’re, like, you know, all high security or all, you know, um, need solitary housing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There could be a different section, could be separated amongst different tiers. It… couple of different ways you could probably do it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All righty. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">CDCR declined to answer our follow-up questions about why Anthony Rodriguez, Cody Taylor, and Dion Green were not separated. But from what these officials are saying, it sure sounded like they never should have been in a position to murder Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But once again, it’s like we’re in different worlds, and it feels like the warden is saying that the world that I’ve seen — in incident reports I’ve read and heard about from numerous incarcerated people and correctional officers — just doesn’t exist. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s tough in a situation like this to get all the questions in that you wanna ask. It’s loud, and we each have a minder attached to us, but at one point during the tour, Julie is able to bring up Valentino with the warden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have been talking to the father of, uh, Valentino Rodriguez Jr., who was a correctional officer here. And I know you probably can’t get into specifics, but I’m wondering if you could just tell me, as a person, how you felt when you heard that he had died.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s, it’s sad when anybody passes away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you know him personally?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie says the family, including Valentino’s dad, have questions for him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Probably wouldn’t be able to comment on any, um, particular cases.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, he never heard from you at the prison, he said. Is that normal? Like, if somebody passes away, would you normally reach out to the family? Or, is that not-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, I’d prefer not to comment on-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… um, at this time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She asks the warden if he’ll sit down with us in a better setting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been reporting on prisons for a long time. I try to be fair, and I feel it… like it’s unfair when we don’t hear your side.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, but I think we can… whatever is fair within policy, we can do whatever we need to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll follow up with you on it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the moment, it seems like the warden might be willing to follow up with us later on. Then, after a walk through the restricted housing unit, they start to lead us back out toward the gates we came in through. I ask where the ISU is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The ISU is, uh, above B Facility.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Above B Facility. So-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… up there in the hill, kind of out of sight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it’s, like, right over there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">150 yards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden points off vaguely toward one of the buildings. From the outside, it doesn’t look like much — this place where the police force of the institution is based, where Sergeant Kevin Steele spent six years and where he grew more and more concerned about staff misconduct being ignored. And the place where Valentino Rodriguez spent his weekends writing reports and booking evidence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. We got, we got a ton.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we pass back out through the checkpoint and under the blue tower, the warden seems to visibly relax the closer we get to the main entrance gate.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What to you is the most significant policy change that has happened? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my career? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden thinks about it as we walk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s been a lot of significant things, and it’s real easy to focus on what’s most current, which for us, over the past six months has been, uh, the, uh, the body worn cameras and the stationary cameras.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">CDCR was actually ordered by a judge to implement body cams at certain other prisons as part of an ongoing class action lawsuit against the agency, and they started rolling them out here at New Folsom too. I’ve talked to incarcerated people who say the body cams can help, but they’re not an easy fix because the institution can refuse to review the footage. And they sometimes delete it long before they’re supposed to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve also talked to officers who say the cameras can help them justify their actions if they’re called into question. As we head toward the outer gate, I’ve been waiting for the right moment to ask the warden about Sergeant Kevin Steele, but I misunderstand how long the tour is. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nope. This is about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">May have been a-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… misunderstanding. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we’ll make sure you guys are all checked out on equipment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve got more time and suddenly we’re by the gate, so I turn to the warden. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know you had a, you had a pretty high profile, uh, officer suicide here with Kevin, officer, Sergeant Kevin Steele, and I’m just wondering kind of how you processed that and how you support people to process that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say it one more time. How I process and how what? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y- how, and how other, how you support other correctional staff when their colleague has committed suicide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We provide all the resources that we can. Um, how I process it \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughing]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is the sa-… It’s, it is sad when there’s any staff death, um, and a lot of the examples, I think back on time, you know, a lot of the s- not a lot, but the staff that I’ve been connected to, uh, particularly at this prison that have gone through it, I mean, it, it weighs on all of us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden says they provide many services to officers, including peer support, and that he really understands the importance of taking care of your mental health. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My, uh, my message has always been it’s hard to be a good partner, a good father, a good spouse or a good son or daughter if you’re not taking care of yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once again, I’m having this moment of disconnect between what the warden is saying and what I’ve heard from officers — that they can’t trust that peer support will stay private, that they have to take time off unpaid when they’re struggling, or pay out of pocket to attend PTSD seminars. And that when you call the state employee hotline to try and access therapy, you still have to wait weeks to get an appointment to talk to someone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you know that, um, Sergeant Steele was suffering m- with his mental health? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I knew that he took some time off work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And do y- why was he banned from this institution? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know that’s something that I can, uh, comment on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can’t? Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I try one more time to ask the warden what he did when he found out that Steele had died, but Dana Simas steps in again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s an inappropriate question to comment on-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whoa…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… a specific person, specific case. Um, it’s, it’s not appropriate for us to do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has us check out our equipment and we say goodbye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you, Mr. Lynch. I appreciate it. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to meet you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Sounds of wind and walking]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What time is it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know it’s only noon. I thought it was gonna-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I thought we would be there forever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I thought we would have more time.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The two and a half hours we were in there felt much longer and not long enough at the same time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s interesting, like, just kind of standing out here, and you, like, look around, and you’ve got the beautiful oak trees in leaf-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… and the green rolling hills, and the architecture of that opening gate, you know, while it’s, uh, you know, cement and, and somewhat brutalistic, it also has a little bit of aesthetic beauty to it, and, like, the deeper in you get, like, the less beauty there is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Standing back outside the gates, back in a world where no one is looking down on us with deadly weapons, where we aren’t surrounded by razor wire and concrete, I can feel something in me that’s been clenched… relax. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just, like, the s- gradual stripping away. Like, talking to correctional officers who talked about walking through this gate every day, and, that, like, each gate further in, the mental kind of armor that they would kind of have to put on more and more and more. Um, and then it’s like, you’re a, you’re a human being out here, and in there, you’re not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you’ve probably guessed, that sit down interview we’d asked for with the warden never happened. We also sent a detailed list of questions about the institutional response to Valentino’s allegations, but a spokesperson for CDCR declined to answer those questions and said that wardens can’t comment on personnel matters. But lucky for us, that was not the end of things, because while Warden Jeff Lynch didn’t have to answer our questions, he did have to answer someone else’s. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you ever, uh, meet with Officer Rodriguez? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. And where did you meet? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my office. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Warden Jeff Lynch testifying at an evidentiary hearing that was held in the summer of 2022. If you remember, some officers had gotten disciplined over the offensive group texts in Valentino’s phone, and two men were even fired… including Daniel Garland, the man who’d sent Valentino that video of his son at the gym threatening to slap him. Garland along with three other officers had appealed their discipline. At this hearing, an administrative law judge is gonna listen to that appeal and decide if their discipline should stand or be overturned. The warden is called as a witness for CDCR to talk about what Valentino had told him in that meeting the week before he died. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Heads up, this testimony references slurs, but we have bleeped them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He indicated he was referred to at times as a-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Please. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… as a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Um, he said, uh, the use of… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… the w- the word \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was used up there often. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Officer personnel matters are usually confidential, but we were able to get these recordings because of a new state-wide transparency law that unsealed records related to discriminatory behavior by law enforcement. This would give us a rare look inside this process, and we’d get to hear from some key figures in Valentino’s story about the events leading up to his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did he ever indicate if he had any physical manifestations as a result of these problems he was having with the other ISU staff? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think, uh, he had mentioned that, uh, he wasn’t sleeping well at home. He was throwing up a lot at work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warden Lynch says he asked Valentino to write up a statement with all his allegations. So far, this was all stuff we pretty much knew about. But then, the lawyer for the officers finally asks the warden about something we’d only heard about from Valentino’s wife Mimy — the allegations that the ISU squad, the police force for the prison, had been dirty. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, he made quite a few allegations, did he not? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, a- not only, uh, just about the way he was treated in ISU, but other more serious allegations, correct? Including about officers in ISU planting drugs on inmates? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, objections. Relevance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s CDCR’s lawyer objecting. They don’t want to go down this road. I’m not totally sure why the officer’s lawyer brings this up either. This hearing is not about those allegations, but because she asks about it, we finally got this little window into the warden’s actions after he met with Valentino. The judge allows the question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Judge:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll allow the question. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there being uncontrolled weapons in ISU?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uncontrolled weapons are weapons that have been seized, but not yet booked into evidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you directed, um, I believe it was… Uh, I don’t know if he was a sergeant or lieutenant at that time, but \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. And, um, I believe Lieutenant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to search the ISU office?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A little later in the hearing, Officer Martin Fong, who’d been in the ISU and who’d gotten a pay cut for his part in some of the ugly group texts was also asked about this search. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We came into the office, normal morning, just as, you know, we’re just kinda w- warming up in the morning and then, uh-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says it was the day before Valentino died. The ISU officers and the chief deputy warden, Gena Jones, came into the office. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was kind of weird because usually \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> doesn’t pop in that early but it’s like, “Hey, whatever.” And she’s, she looks at me and Jordan, and she goes, “I need to talk to you and you.” I’m like, “Oh.” Like, “This is out of the ordinary” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fong says at first he thinks maybe they’re going to get some praise for a recent case, but then Jones pulls them out into the hallway.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just basically says, “Hey, I wanna, I want you to hear from me first, but your desk… Uh, I had Lieutenant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and Lieutenant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> search your desk. There’s allegations, uh, that there was weapons and… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[inaudible]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> there’s phones and narcotics in your desk.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another staff member had made these claims against them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, “Why are they doing?” Like, “I have a target on my back now or what?” But they weren’t just trying to get me removed from the unit. They were, they were trying to get me fired, or, you know, like, that’s some serious allegations. And so that devastated me ’cause of it, it, it challenged my, or it pretty much trying to discredit my character and everything I’ve worked for. And I got emotional, and I broke down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A weapon and some metal were found in his desk. We don’t know exactly what this weapon looked like, but I want to be clear here that from the context, it seems like this isn’t a gun or a baton or a weapon officers would use, but what’s called by CDCR an “inmate manufactured weapon.” So a shiv or something like that, that would usually be stored in evidence after being confiscated. But this weapon, Fong says, had a different purpose. He kept it in his desk as a show-and-tell item. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have a lot of tours that came up there and there’s a shadow board that has weapons, but s- sometimes to actually hold and, and look at a weapon, it, it’s a tangible item. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden says, even though a weapon was found, he believed Fong’s explanation of why it was there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that you understood that Officer Fong was using it for some sort of training event?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was my understanding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, and so, so based on your understanding, it was not improper for Officer Fong to have this weapon in his desk? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, based upon what was reported to me, um, but I didn’t know the, the origin of the weapon either.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I ran this by the former sergeant who you heard from last episode who knew a lot about internal affairs. I wanted to see if this made sense to him — to have an improvised weapon in your desk for training purposes. He said it did not. If you wanted a weapon to use for training, you would check it out of evidence. There would be a paper trail. Ultimately, the search did not result in any reprimand or discipline for officers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unfortunately, in this hearing, no one followed up to ask the warden our biggest questions. Why had he chosen this as the way to handle Valentino’s allegations in the first place? If substantiated, evidence of planted drugs or weapons could have massive implications, from tainted criminal cases to charges for the warden’s own cops. But the warden didn’t immediately call in internal affairs, special agents who might have set up a sting operation or pulled phone records. Instead, Lynch has his own in-house people, the direct supervisors of the officers in question, go in and do this strangely casual search of their desks. By making this choice, the warden, also whether knowingly or not, likely exposed Valentino as a whistleblower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hours before Mimy Rodriguez got home and found her husband on the bathroom floor, one of the last texts he sent said, “It’s out now that I told on the team.” After Valentino died, and Val Sr. filed a complaint with internal affairs and handed over his son’s phone, a special agent did start looking into some things. Their investigation didn’t substantiate the claims of planted drugs and weapons, but it’s not clear that they really looked into those claims. The report does note one more thing about Valentino’s meeting with the warden and the subsequent search that makes no sense. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Internal Affairs asked the warden to turn over any notes or memos about these two events. The warden told them he couldn’t find any documentation of either event. \u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Listening through these hearings, we also got to finally hear from one of the people that Val Sr. held responsible for how Valentino had been treated in the ISU — Sergeant David Anderson, Valentino’s boss, the guy who’d been on some of the text threads and who Valentino said had threatened him. He’d been called to testify by the lawyer for the officers, and she asks him what was meant by that nickname they’d given Valentino: half-patch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was more of a term of endearment, um, like a brother or a friend, a close friend is the term that, uh, they used it in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Objection, speculation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Judge:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sustained. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lawyer then asks Anderson if he heard other terms used — homophobic slurs, racial slurs, and his answer each time is-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not that I can recall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when CDCR’s lawyer cross-examines him, she confronts him with his prior testimony to internal affairs, in which he admitted hearing these terms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It must’ve slipped my mind. I apologize for that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in fact, you heard Officer Garland use the term \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">–\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… in the ISU office? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And during that same office of internal affairs interview, you admitted to hearing Officer Garland use the term \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the office.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What page is that on? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you could just close that and- if you don’t recall?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t recall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s one I… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, and if I could direct your attention to page 73. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">73?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m going to direct your attention to lines 13 through 19. Special Agent \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> says, “Earlier we talked about the term \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with an A at the end.” You respond, “Yeah.” He then says, “Did you hear staff use that?” You respond, “Yeah.” “Who did you hear?” And you respond, “Officer Garland.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, yes. Now that I’m reading this, it does, uh, I’m able to remember that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We still don’t know if the department imposed any discipline on Anderson. He could’ve been one of the people who got reprimanded in connection with Valentino’s case for failure to report misconduct, but if so… those details aren’t public.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We know from employment records that Anderson was promoted to lieutenant at New Folsom in July of 2022, the month after he gave this testimony. During this hearing, the lawyer for the officers also called each of them to speak in their own defense. And I’m gonna focus on Daniel Garland’s testimony, since you’ve heard the most about his actions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long were you with the CDCR? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just under 19 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, and, um, how did you get into corrections? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My brothers were, uh, were inmates. My mother and my father were locked up, so I’ve always had some kind of connection to corrections. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Garland says getting a job as an officer changed his life, and this personal history gave him a unique empathy to do that job. But he says it was also hard work. He was exposed to terrible things and assaulted, and he and Valentino were there for each other in the harsh environment of the prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was like a little brother. He was becoming… You know, he was becoming closer and like a little brother. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lawyer says they’ve heard a lot about Garland’s words. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe generally the way you speak?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I say, I say inappropriate things, and I say them in inappropriate times. But I’m, I’m, I’m usually doing it a- as hard as it is for people in here to understand, I’m usually doing it in an encouraging manner. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he says he didn’t even know it bothered Valentino until after he’d died, when someone else in the office said something to him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sergeant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> made several comments about, “We killed Rodriguez.” And he made certain comments that specifically me and Jordan killed Rodriguez. And so we, we put in a, a complaint against him, and that was the first time that I had any idea of anything with Rodriguez. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The tape is redacted, but the sergeant he’s talking about here has to be Steele. We know Steele was really upset about Valentino’s death and blamed these guys who’d been so hard on him. That complaint that Garland and another officer filed against Steele didn’t go anywhere. Then the article about Valentino’s death and Garland’s text messages came out in the paper, the Sacramento Bee.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What impact did these articles have on you a- at the time they came out?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I- It destroyed me. It destroyed my character. It, uh… As soon as the articles come out, it just… My daughter, my daughter had to go to homeschooling. I mean, uh, it just destroyed everything. It destroyed my life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then his lawyer asks Garland a question that she asks each of the officers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I- If you were able to say something about this situation to Officer Rodriguez’s father in light of everything that’s gone on, what would you say to him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 2:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Objection. Relevance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I would just like to let him know that for the, for the time that he was in ISU, that he had a good time and he had fun and we, we all, we all had fun. We all enjoyed his son and that it wasn’t, it wasn’t what he was told. It’s not what… Rodriguez didn’t have a bad time in ISU. Rodriguez loved ISU. He loved working with us and he, he said the same things I said back and forth and I never got offended by him and I, I never felt he was offended. And I, I just wanna let his father know that we did respect his son and that we, we enjoyed his son and that I’m s- I’m really sorry for his loss. I just, I feel bad for him. I- I’m a father and it’s so- something you shouldn’t see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In closing, the officer’s lawyer argues that in this case, that’s basically just about bad language, dismissal and long pay cuts are too severe. They were all veteran officers with great reputations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The question is for these four gentlemen, should they either have their careers ended or be hampered, uh, for years financially and with, with the stigma of this discipline based on what were private communications, banter, blowing off steam, were words? They were just bad words. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The attorney for CDCR goes last. He says any reasonable person looking over these messages would understand that they’re harmful and that they had accumulative effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 2:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This beat down at the office and over text that he took from these officers had its effect over time, and that’s why, that’s why it took a while until he reached his breaking point to start reporting it to people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, he points back to the officers’ own testimony.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 2:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Council’s question to the appellants about, you know, “What, what would you say to Rodriguez’s father if you had a chance to do so?” And it was intended to be emotional testimony, but I think it’s notable that not one of the appellants, not one of them indicated that they would tell him that they were sorry for anything that they did. In fact, several of them said that they would try to convince the, the father that they did nothing wrong — that they didn’t intend to do anything wrong. They treated ISU like their own junior high locker room. They, they bullied, uh, Rodriguez. They, they went after him. They called him horrible names, yet they s- they, they got on the stand and said, “I wouldn’t… I would not say anything to him indicating that I’m sorry for what I did.” A- And, and that right there is the biggest evidence that the likelihood of reoccurrence is high. Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s how the eight days of hearings came to a close. There was one other person who we’d hoped to hear in these recordings, but didn’t, the chief deputy warden, Gena Jones. She wasn’t called by either side, which seems strange. Jones is the person Valentino first broke down to when he felt he had to leave the prison, and she was directly in charge of the ISU. Since Valentino’s death, she has also been promoted. She is now a warden of the prison in Stockton, California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The judge issued his recommendation a little while later, which was adopted by the state personnel board, which is basically the HR department for the state. And we were able to get that decision through a public record’s request.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. So, this is from… We got this last night from the state personnel board.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are the decisions that they made about the appeals brought by, uh, Garland, Jordan, uh, Bettencourt and Fong.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie met up with Val Sr. to show him the documents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first thing to know is that the state personnel board upheld all the decisions, so that means that Garland is still fired, and Jordan’s fired, and Fong and Bettencourt had their pay docked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, I’m glad that you s- you, you told me first before we went on, ’cause, uh, my heart was racing. So, that’s good that they upheld the decisions. Um, I’m interested to hear what, what they had to say. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I can imagine, you know, that, “We were just joking around with him,” or whatever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says it was in his son’s nature to forgive, to try and get along with people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s really easy for someone to look at the text messages and see that he’s being friendly at times with these same guys, even after he leaves, but th- that was his personality, you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s one of those things you can’t beat out of your kid-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… ’cause he’s just a nice person, you know? He was always tugging at me and saying, “Look what I did, dad,” you know? Uh, he always… Like, th- they call them guys apple polishers, you know? \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Yeah, that was just my son. He was just a little apple polisher. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I want their attorney to realize, that’s, that’s the kind of person he was. He was a, he was a little boy in a man’s shell, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Following this hearing, these officers appealed their discipline to the state superior court, and that appeal is still pending. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for Val Sr., this narrowing of the investigation, two officers fired for saying bad words, does not address the underlying machine that enabled that conduct.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everybody is just protecting themselves, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we were rolling out this podcast, we were also staying in touch with Val Sr. and one day he texted Julie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like he wrote me this morning saying something like, “Well, Steele promised me I’d know the truth and it would be hard.” I mean, uh, so, he’s got something new to tell us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Boy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know what it is, or if it’s just reading it from Steele like that. I, I don’t know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Val Sr. had finally gotten a chance to read the book that Kevin Steele had been working on before he passed away, and so Julie and I met up with him to talk about it a few days later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, we really just wanted to check in with you and see, you know, what is… How you’re feeling, but also just, you know, you had a chance to read the book.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was, I was highlighting things and I was like, “Man, could just… You could highlight the whole thing sometimes.” It’s-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele’s widow, Lily, shared the manuscript with him, and she also gave us permission to read some parts of it here. The first page is a list of titles Steele was considering. At the top…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Thin Line Blurs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How to Kill a Cop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Betrayal.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The book begins with a line that’s very on brand for him. “This book is dedicated and faithfully devoted to the truth.” The dedication is heavy with Steele’s disillusionment and hurt. “Within this book, you will read the story about how corruption and criminality were treated as celebrities. Prowlers, bandits and punks were granted immunity for dirty deeds and acts of criminality, while the whistle-blowers and law-abiding staff were pursued, harassed and persecuted. This story was never intended to be told.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The stories he tells are many of the stories that you have already heard throughout this podcast. He writes about meeting Ronny Price in the hospital with his teeth knocked out and his face smashed in after being tripped by officers, and how the incarcerated man died the next day of his injuries.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele writes about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar and questions, “Did CDCR peace officers, the individuals who are commissioned and duty-bound to be professional, fair, honest and ethical, become complicit in the slaughter of an inmate?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he writes about his friend, Valentino Rodriguez.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was hard to read, and then every time I went back into it, it got a little easier to read.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There were parts that Val Sr. found touching, like Steele’s description of how hard his son worked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Valentino was just trying to make his supervisors, the institution and his chosen profession flash, sparkle and glimmer. Valentino was happy and filled with pride when something he was working on gained positive recognition and attention.” And that, that is exactly the way he was when he was a, when he was a boy. He was the same, same way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there were parts like this one that made Val Sr. very angry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Valentino would often make comments to me that he was treated as the office bitch and given very little praise and gratitude.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s clear from the book that Valentino’s death is a turning point for Steel. He keeps waiting for the institution to respond with care, concern, and accountability, but that’s not what he sees. The day after Valentino died the warden wanted to talk to Steele, and here’s Val Sr. again reading what Steele wrote about this meeting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I remained standing in the middle of the office. I was still attempting to fully grasp the significance and magnitude of Valentino’s death as I was openly crying in plain view of Warden Lynch and Lieutenant Strohmaier.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden wanted to find out what Steele knew. Steele writes that he shared everything Valentino had told him, and then waited for the warden to react.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Without any hesitation, Warden Lynch calmly remained seated with his right leg crossed over his left leg and very casually said, ‘Well, you haven’t told me anything I didn’t already know.'”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden could just be acknowledging that he’d already heard these same things from Valentino himself a few days earlier. But to Steele, this reaction is evidence of the warden’s callousness and preoccupation with self-protection. Steele began to view everything through this lens. The institution he’d have given his life for was starting to treat him as a threat. He writes that the friction in the ISU office was increasing. In one instance, he says that his boss told him, quote, that, “Some staff were starting to consider me as an ‘inmate lover’ as I was spending too much time talking to inmates.” He writes that another boss emailed him asking about his retirement plans. And someone else told him that his bosses were talking about him behind closed doors. “The main topic of discussion within these meetings was how to stimulate my departure without making it appear as workplace retaliation.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I kind of could see how they were systematically picking him apart until his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kevin Steele died, his manuscript was 104 pages, but it wasn’t finished. There were some things Val Sr. was expecting to see in those pages but didn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe it’s my suspicions and they’re not confirmed there. You know? But he got, he got about as far into that book as um, I, I needed him to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We still have questions for Steele that aren’t answered in his book, like what had he and Valentino shared with each other about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar? What happened in that last call Steele had with internal affairs? And could things have turned out differently?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many of Steele’s friends and colleagues have also struggled to understand his death and everything that led up to it, and some of them are speaking up now because they want answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s why we’re here as well is to find the truth finally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is retired correctional officer Annette Eichhorn. She worked as a tower copy at New Folsom. She says Valentino and Steele’s deaths should be a wake up call.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now two of them that are dead because to find the truth. That should shock the shit out of everybody-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… that’s still there. And I don’t understand how it’s not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette came into our recording studio with her friend, Paul Crews, who also retired from the prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was a correctional officer the last almost 21 years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul was a control booth officer. As you’ve heard throughout this podcast, we’ve often had to agree to confidentiality or anonymity for officers. But these two officers agreed to sit down with us and talk on the record because they wanna stand up for Steele.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s few people that we would be speaking out for.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Cause this is a guy that was always looking out for us, as… Not just “us” singular. “Us” plural and “us” as a department.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And as Annette says, they want to try and find the truth among the sea of rumors that started going around after Steele’s picture was posted at the gate banning him from the institution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I went up to a few people and said, what is, what’s up with Steel? F him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette wasn’t sure why people at the prison had turned on Steele. Paul says he called Steele on the phone in early 2021, but he didn’t know Steele was out of the prison, or that he’d been banned. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He picked up the phone, so I contacted him, not knowing anything that was going on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul hadn’t been at work for months because he’d been rehabbing from an injury, but now he was supposed to go back to work and he was calling Steele because he was really struggling and he needed Steele to know something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, “Kevin, this is what’s going on.” I… It was all about me on that conversation at that point. “I’m on this particular drug. I don’t think I should be in a control booth. I shouldn’t be doing anything with this job until I get me right.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul told Steele he’d had a meltdown and been put on psychiatric medication. Steele was the guy who drug tested officers at the prison, and so, Paul needed him to know that this medication would be showing up in his urine.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Were you at that low point then when you called him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was, I was at a low point, but I was at such a low point, my, my wife was looking at me like, “I need your, your safe key.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The key to the gun safe. Paul says his wife was worried that he might take his own life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, “I’m there.” She says, “We don’t know.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hmmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said, “What do you mean we?” The kids didn’t know. So, “Sure. Have my damn keys,” \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, “you know, if that makes you feel happy.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul told Steele what he was going through.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then he told me, he’s like, “Well, I’m… I haven’t been there since November.” I’m like, “November? What, what happened?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele had actually stopped working at the prison in December, and then gone to Missouri in January. After the notice banning him, Steele had started to suspect he was under investigation, but he didn’t know what for — and he told Paul he couldn’t talk about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was like, “All right. Well, that aside, are you mentally okay?” ‘Cause he didn’t sound right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To me, he didn’t sound right. And he said, “I’m just frustrated, you know?” I was like, “Okay. Well, I’ve always been that guy, somebody you can call and talk to no matter what. Um, I’d rather you talk than blow your head off. I just… We know too many people that that happened to.” And, um, he’s like, “No, I’m not there.” And I was like, “Okay.” And he kind of, like, told me, “Everything is gonna come out in the wash, but right now, I’m ou- out a job.” Well, I was like, “All right. Well, I’m gonna check on you every so often.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul says for some reason, talking to Steele helped him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My problem didn’t seem so big anymore. It was kind of like… In a weird way, it was kind of like a reset.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette was going through her own struggles with the department and would text and talk with Steele about what he was going through. She says he was crushed when he heard they were trying to make him look corrupt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re switching it to where, no Steele is helping this inmate with his attorney and, um, um, turning on his own people, and that’s why he, he, he had to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette says Steele told her he wished he’d never opened his mouth.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s like, “I shouldn’t have talked.” He’s all, “My life would have been so much better.” I was like, “Steele, you know you couldn’t.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You, you know you could not live with yourself if you just ignored Rodriguez.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over his years at the institution, Steele had seen so much, assaults and cover-ups and over and over again, he’d been told that, “There was a process in place. People would be held accountable. Just trust the system.” Now, he felt that system had turned on him. We can’t see the full internal affairs file on Steele, but we were able to get a summary report about what he was being investigated for and what the outcome was. Here are the allegations. Number one, circumventing the prison’s legal mail process by sending a scanned letter from an incarcerated person to their attorney. Number two, he allegedly met with an incarcerated person and lied that it was for an attorney visit. And number three, he, “Released a confidential memorandum to a member of the public after the Office of Internal Affairs ordered the sergeant not to communicate with that member of the public. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That last allegation against Steele was the easiest to decode. It was about Steele’s own memo — that explosive one that he sent to the warden that we read you earlier in this series. The member of the public that he sent it to, as we know, was Val Sr., who he’d already been told not to talk to. The second allegation that Steele met with an incarcerated person and lied about it being for an attorney visit didn’t go anywhere, and it couldn’t be substantiated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for a long time, we weren’t sure what the first allegation was really about. Had Steele been helping someone get around the legal mail process and secretly communicate with their lawyers? And then we were leaked those tapes and memos, and we began to put two and two together. We found out that there were these two letters that Dion Green wrote to the warden. He was worried about his safety because word was spreading that he was a whistleblower. In one of the videos we got, Steele actually holds up one of these letters to the camera.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then the other one, I told you that I’m going to, um, email to your attorney.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then that was at your request. It wasn’t something that I suggested or asked you to do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what this is about. These letters seem like they were Green’s insurance policy in case something happened to him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So on two occasions, Steele emailed copies of Green’s letters to both the warden and to Green’s attorney. But legal mail is still supposed to go through proper channels and the actual physical mail. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But here’s the thing that makes this investigation so weird. You can see in Steele’s correspondence that this was not some sneaky thing he did. Both times, he explicitly tells the warden he’s doing it. It isn’t until months later that Internal Affairs starts investigating Steele for this. And that investigation was still going on when he died. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Paul and Annette that after Steele’s death, the agency finished that internal investigation and found that Steele had violated policy by sending those letters and forwarding the memo he wrote to Val Sr.. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They completed the Internal Affairs investigation after he died and imposed a 10% pay cut for 12 months.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After he died?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After he died.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How can they do that after he died? Are you serious?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the fuck is wrong with these people? What the… This is how far they can go. They gotta nail that, literally nail the nail in the coffin on his name. That fucking pisses me off. Fuck them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I needed to hear that. We needed to… What the fuck is their narrative that they thought that they can do that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s dirty as shit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s dirty as shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The discipline deemed appropriate for Steele’s offenses — sending scanned letters over email to an attorney, and sending his own memo to Val Sr. — was a pay cut for a full year. This was greater than the discipline imposed on any of the officers who’d failed to protect Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But because he was dead, the discipline was suspended. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the state’s Office of the Inspector General for prisons about Steele’s case because the timing of it, the nature of it really looks like retaliation. And it’s part of their job to investigate complaints of whistleblower retaliation. A spokesperson said they couldn’t comment on his case but that it was protocol for CDCR to complete investigations even after an officer’s death, and that, “The act of whistleblowing does not insulate a person from being subjected to a legitimate investigation into allegations that the whistleblower engaged in misconduct.”\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As far as we can tell, this is the only mark on his record — the only time the agency disciplined him for anything.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Steele’s disciplinary record, and his book, and even this podcast so far… don’t detail all of Steele’s efforts to expose misconduct in the agency. Some of those efforts we haven’t gone into. We don’t know the full picture\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there is one more case that Steele got involved in that I want to tell you about briefly, because I think it shows how far Steele had traveled from the man who showed up to work early each morning, full of faith in his institution. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the month before his death Steele was in communication with an attorney, who under other circumstances he likely would have considered on the other side of things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Would you mind just starting off by telling us who you are and what you do, Steve?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I’m Steve Glickman. I’m an attorney in Los Angeles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Glickman was suing CDCR on behalf of the family of a man who died in the prison. That death was reported as a suicide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We had not a single clue that there was anything other than a suicide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Glickman says another lawyer gave him a tip — that he should get in contact with a man named Sgt. Kevin Steele. So he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a shocking, chilling conversation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele told Glickman he’d interviewed an incarcerated man who’d confessed it was actually a murder and that he had committed it. This was surprising to Glickman because that confession was not among the evidence that CDCR had turned over about the case, and they were supposed to turn over everything. On the phone, Steele told the lawyer that he’d part of gathering that evidence and noticed this key interview was missing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He complained to one of his supervisors and he learned that the inmate Clark, the one who had confessed to the murder, was actually working for the security, in- internal security office there at the prison. And, and so his feeling as he expressed to me was, is that’s why it was being covered up — because this guy was an informant for the, the prison system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says that Steele was scheduled to give a deposition in his lawsuit, but before that happened–\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was called actually by a newspaper reporter who told me that, uh, Steel had committed suicide under suspicious circumstances. So we never, we never were able to get his testimony under oath. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, what did you think when you got that call? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was shocked. I was shocked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The agency settled that suit for $250,000 earlier this year. Steele doesn’t mention this case in his manuscript, maybe because he hadn’t gotten to it yet,but the final pages show that he was researching the case law around whistleblowing, and what protections he might be entitled to. And what he discovered is that there were actually relatively few. And here is the fundamental catch–22 that correctional officers like Steele face: if there’s a policy against sharing confidential information and an officer shares it anyways, even if the purpose is to blow the whistle on misconduct, the officer can still be punished.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yet, on the day they join the academy, correctional officers also swear an oath… an oath to uphold the law. And so, what are they supposed to do if they come to believe that their own institution is breaking it?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lack of protections for whistleblowers is not a new problem for CDCR. 20 years ago, the state Senate called for hearings about CDCR’s failure to police itself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Gloria Romero:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can the California Department of Corrections police itself? The answer, I believe, is no. But starting today, it must…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And a persistent code of silence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Gloria Romero:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Code of silence at the highest level of government. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The testimony sounds eerily familiar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>D.J. Vodicka:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He yelled, “Hey, you big old snitch, you big old rat. Who you telling on now?” And I felt really threatened by that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Woman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m a family member of an inmate. My husband is in prison. He’s currently at Ironwood. He was up at Pelican Bay, and guards tried to have him killed by putting an inmate in his cell. He was very, very, very badly hurt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Jackie Speier:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s frightening to me is that there are correctional officers within the institution at all of our state prisons that feel they cannot come forward for fear of retaliation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mike Jimenez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, there are. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Jackie Speier:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that should be of concern to you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mike Jimenez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the impetus for these hearings was the suicide of a captain who’d reported concerns about a massive riot that officers delayed responding to. The captain was demoted and threatened by his colleagues, according to news reports. “My job has killed me,” the captain wrote in his suicide note. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After Valentino died and after Kevin Steele died, both Mimy Rodriguez and Lili Steele had a decision to make. In order to get husbands’ death benefits right away, they could sign a release form stating that their deaths were unrelated to their jobs. But neither widow could bring themselves to sign that piece of paper. Lili told me it would’ve felt like stabbing her husband in the back. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So instead, they filed worker’s compensation claims with the state. This was a difficult process, but Lili said this was her way of saying, “I know what you people did to him.” Initially those claims were denied, but after a fight they were granted. Both Kevin and Valentino’s deaths were found to be the result of mental injuries sustained in their profession as correctional officers for the State of California. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lili said when she got the call about that decision, she sobbed. She told me she was overcome with emotion to have someone acknowledge what had happened, and that they believed her. Mimy says she also remembers getting that call.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just said, “Okay. Thank you.” And then I cried when I got off the phone. But I, I, I knew it was going on. Like, I knew that this was… had to do with his job. Oh, that’s all he talked about. The night that he passed, I remember when I was getting put in the back of the cop car, I remember yelling at the cop, like, telling her, like, “Quit your job. Like, this job is gonna cause you so much stress. Look what happened.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mimy says when she and Valentino first met, his job was one of the things she loved about him. She also had plans to go into the field herself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a field that I had a lot of respect for, still have a lot of respect for, but it’s also something that is permanently engraved of “I know what happens here. I know what happened here.” And it’s hard not to look at it differently now and feel differently now. I didn’t realize it was gonna be like this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On paper, California’s $14 billion a year prison system is an institution that’s trying the Norway model — the cutting edge of progressive and humane policies that focuses on reintegration and emotional wellbeing. An institution that bans discrimination, that promises to protect the people in its custody, that forbids the code of silence. And yet, we’ve found the reality inside this system is very different from the promise. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our review of 80 cases of officer discrimination going back to 2015 found the type of abuse that Valentino experienced happened across institutions. The most common type of discrimination in these cases disclosed to us was sexual harassment. Yet on its own, even egregious misconduct often did not lead to firing. And this culture is important because sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly it enforces the code of silence and even more serious misconduct goes unreported. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Along with off-the-charts use of force at New Folsom Prison, our analysis of CDCR’s data found another troubling trend. Despite damning reports from the Office of the Inspector General of prisons, the rate officers used force across all high security prisons in the state between 2009 and last year increased by 137%. This gap between what the system promises and what it delivers is the gap that swallowed up incarcerated people like Ronnie Price and Luis Giovanny Aguilar. And this is the gap that Valentino Rodriguez and Kevin Steele fell into as well. The agency will not discuss their cases, and their names do not appear among the fallen officers memorialized on CDCR’s website, but they are not alone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In terms of overall numbers of correctional officers who’ve died by suicide like Steele, it’s hard to get an exact number. There are about 30,000 peace officers employed in California’s prison agency. A 2017 UC Berkeley survey of some officers found that one in 10 reported suicidal thoughts. But CDCR said they don’t track employee suicides out of respect for their privacy.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The California Correctional Officers Union provided me with a list that they had gathered, informally by word of mouth, institution by institution. So it’s not a complete list, and it’s not even a list of names, but simply dates of death. There are 24 dates on this list — 24 current or former officers who died since the beginning of 2020. Since I got that list in May last year, I heard about six more officers and a former warden who died by suicide, bringing the number to 31; at least 31 peace officers who took their own lives since 2020. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The union contact who gave me that list said, “If these deaths were happening in any other profession, someone would be calling for an investigation,” and yet he can’t even get a solid count to understand the scope of the problem. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The number of officers who simply died too young, like Valentino, often due to stress, heart attacks, and substance use issues is likely even greater. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul, the retired correctional officer, told me among officers, it’s become a kind of dark joke. When someone leaves the profession, on the 5th anniversary of their retirement, they throw a party to celebrate that, unlike so many of their colleagues, they are still alive. Like a lot of officers, Kevin Steele and Valentino Rodriguez signed up to work for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation because of the promise of good benefits, early retirement, a family of fellow officers. Now their actual families are left without them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My biggest regret is that that day he died, I just didn’t take him for a long ride with me and talk. We were, we were due for one, and I just… You know, you just don’t know. This, uh, opportunity there and you just don’t know. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if I woulda been able to save him. I, I know I could have. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s one of the hardest things about being a parent. When they’re little, you can protect them from things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know where they’re going. You can keep them close. And then…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They go out in the world.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since the podcast came out, Val Sr. has had good days and bad days. He hopes something big will come from this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think, um, most importantly, this is probably my last stand. Um, I don’t, I don’t know what else I can do. You know, I just always pray that, God willing, it’s, it’s for a, a good, a good thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says it’ll be a relief in a way to come to the end of this project, but he’ll also miss it. It’s been a way for him to keep Valentino alive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll never stop, ever stop thinking about my son. No, he’s just too, uh… I just loved him too much.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’ve been listening to the final episode of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom from KQED. While this is the last episode of the series we will let you know if we get any more breakthroughs in our reporting. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to: onourwatch@kqed.org \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you to the people who knew and loved Valentino Rodriguez and Kevin Steele for sharing their stories with us. And thanks to all the correctional officers who spoke to us for this series, whose voices you often did not hear on the podcast, but who informed us about the challenges of their profession. If you are a whistleblower, you can find support online including at TheLampLighterproject.org which is especially for law enforcement whistleblowers. And we’ve links to other resources in our episode description and on our website. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We also want to thank the families of Ronnie Price and Luis Giovanny Aguilar for opening up to us about their loved ones. And huge gratitude to the incarcerated people who spoke to us under very difficult and dangerous circumstances, including Joel Uribe, Mario Gonzalez, Mario Valenzuela and many more. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauléon. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fouda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn, and Laura Fitzgerald — students in the Investigative Reporting Program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past two years… so many journalists have helped with this series… We got research support from graduate students Elizabeth Santos, Cayla Mihalovich, Julietta Bisharyan, William Jenkins, Armon Owlia, Vera Watt, and Junyao Yang. Thanks also to UC Berkeley’s Jeremy Rue, Amanda Glazer and Olivia Qiu for their data analysis. And to George Levine of the LA Times. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The internal records highlighted in this podcast were obtained as part of The California Reporting project. Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR and KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky for their editorial insights. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Promotion and engagement support from César Saldaña and Maha Sanad. Graphic design by Sophie Feller. Photography by Beth LaBerge, and videography by Kori Suzuki. Thank you to our in-house lawyers, Rebecca Hopkins and Bridget Barrett, along with Sarah Burns and Thomas Burke of Davis Wright Tremaine, who helped us sue CDCR so we could get the internal tapes you heard on this podcast. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager, our Managing Editor of News and Enterprise Otis R. Taylor Jr., Ethan Tovan-Lindsey our Vice President of News, And KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And thanks to all of you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1712653309,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":457,"wordCount":14554},"headData":{"title":"8. Last Stand | S2: New Folsom | KQED","description":"After his son’s death, Valentino Rodriguez Sr. waited for the warden of New Folsom prison to call him. That call never came. In our season finale, we walk through the gates of New Folsom to ask the warden for answers. We also get a rare glimpse inside the world of correctional officer discipline and hear from Sgt. Kevin Steele in his own words.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"After his son’s death, Valentino Rodriguez Sr. waited for the warden of New Folsom prison to call him. That call never came. In our season finale, we walk through the gates of New Folsom to ask the warden for answers. We also get a rare glimpse inside the world of correctional officer discipline and hear from Sgt. Kevin Steele in his own words.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"8. Last Stand | S2: New Folsom","datePublished":"2024-04-09T10:00:45.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-09T09:01:49.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7467271989.mp3?updated=1712624346","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11982244/8-last-stand-s2-new-folsom","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After his son’s death, Valentino Rodriguez Sr. waited for the warden of New Folsom prison to call him. That call never came. In our season finale, we walk through the gates of New Folsom to ask the warden for answers. We also get a rare glimpse inside the world of correctional officer discipline and hear from Sgt. Kevin Steele in his own words.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7467271989\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whistleblower resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.thelamplighterproject.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Lamplighter Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://thesignalsnetwork.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Signals Network\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://empowr.us/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">EMPOWR\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowersofamerica.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblowers of America\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistleblower.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Government Accountability Project\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.whistleblowers.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">National Whistleblower Center\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://whistlebloweraid.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whistleblower Aid\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads-up that this episode references discriminatory language and discusses suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. We’ve also included resources for whistleblowers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After his son, Valentino Rodriguez, died in October 2020, Val Sr. had waited for someone from the prison to call him, to acknowledge his son’s passing. A few months went by, and when that call didn’t come, he sent off an email.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am Val’s dad. These are pictures of my wife and Val’s brother.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Attached to it were photos of Valentino on the day he graduated from the academy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I remember his graduation day, how proud he was. I remember the speech from that podium as clear as the day he was born.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The email was addressed to the head of CDCR, along with some of the people that Val Sr. felt were critical in what had happened to Valentino.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It could have been avoided when he asked for help but was swept under the rug to protect those involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Including his boss, Sergeant David Anderson…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">His sergeant that was witness to so many abusive texts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The chief deputy warden, Gena Jones, and the warden, Jeff Lynch-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My son was also left with your betrayal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… the boss of the whole institution. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not had so much as a knock on the door, an apology, or any acknowledgement of his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Val Sr. did get a response to this email from the head of CDCR at the time. She passed on her condolences and said the agency was investigating his son’s case, but there was only silence from the warden. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, in March of last year, about eight months into our investigation, we got some news. We were gonna be able to go on a rare press tour at New Folsom Prison, and talk to the warden face to face. Val Sr. sent us a list of questions he wanted us to ask. Like, who had leaked information about the warden’s private meeting with Valentino? Why had the warden banned Kevin Steele from the prison? And why hadn’t he ever called? Julie, my reporting partner, also reached out to Valentino’s widow, Mimy Rodriguez, to tell her the news.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re going to the prison next week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We asked for a sit-down with the warden, and we were told no. Um, but then we were told that he’ll be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I’m getting ready for that. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How… That’s exciting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Got any questions for the warden?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanna know what was going through his head when he found out Val passed. I wanna know what he felt when he sat across from Valentino. How did you feel when you found out? Did you get sick? Did you throw up? I… these things, I just… they probably seem minuscule or silly, but I w-… I just wanna know… was it just another officer for him? I just wanna know. Did you care? Did it matter to you? Do you remember his face the way I do? Or his laugh, or his gap teeth, or his love for ketchup? Do you remember his reports? Do you remember how hard he worked to make you happy, the way he worked hard to make his parents happy? Or, are you just gonna disregard that and say, “He was a great officer,” and give me some generic answer? I want him to be honest, and I want him to respect the people that come in and out of that prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we prepared to walk through the gates of New Folsom Prison, we were quite literally now going to be following in the footsteps of Officer Valentino Rodriguez and Sergeant Kevin Steele, and I kept thinking about their words to each other on the last day of Valentino’s life. “There are two sides over there.” Which side of the prison would we get to see? I’m Sukey Lewis, and this is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Season Two: New Folsom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Automated:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In one mile, turn left onto Folsom Prison Road.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, we’re just passing past the sign for Folsom State Prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> we’re… it’s actually this lovely pastoral scene. You have this-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a beautiful spring day as Julie and I drive up the winding road in the Sierra Nevada foothills toward New Folsom Prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, frick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just I’m just… I don’t usually stress out, but I haven’t been in a prison for a while.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here we go, CSP-SAC, and yeah. You’re feeling it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, I’m feeling it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie’s bracing herself to go into this place where we’ve been invited, but we’re not exactly welcome, and where everything we see is gonna be tightly controlled.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, here they are.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We park and then walk up to the outer security checkpoint of this huge facility. There’s a reporting team from the LA Times here today as well for the press tour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to meet you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LA Times Reporter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The LA Times.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to meet you. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughing]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sources have told us that the prison has been prepping for this for days, and the entourage that comes out to greet us is impressive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One of the biggest I’ve ever seen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About a dozen people, who each introduce themselves, starting with the biggest of the bigwigs here today, the associate director for all of California’s high-security prisons, who then introduces the man we’ve been waiting so long to speak with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Associate Director:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of ’em, and, uh, this is Jeff Warden’s prison, er, uh, Jeff Lynch’s prison. (laughing) \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jeff Lynch, warden, CSP Sacramento.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warden Jeff Lynch, he’s a tall man with a broad chest, light brown hair. He looks a little like the actor Jeff Daniels, and today, he’s wearing a suit jacket, a pink shirt, and a tie. Down the line from him, we meet two associate wardens, two captains, a lieutenant, and people from healthcare and public relations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, cool, um, we may have to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughing]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> ask you your names again along the way. That’s a lot to remember.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tour Guide:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, the, the plan is-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We walk past some staff residences and lower security areas that are empty right now and then under the eye of the tall, blue tower, where we know a guard sits with a Mini-14 rifle looking out over everything. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…Chain link fence on either side, big mirrors overhead, and there’s two little, kind of, windows. This is the same process that correctional staff go through when they come to work every day. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once inside the main complex, off to my left, I see a gray cement building with those very narrow windows. On the side of it, there’s a letter and a number: B8.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, so that looks like the B8 unit… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The unit where Luis Giovanny Aguilar was killed in the day room. That’s not part of today’s tour. Instead, they’re taking us to what’s called the short-term restricted housing unit. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…And there’s short term restrictive housing kinda to the front and the left.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s the new version of the SHU, or solitary confinement — the place where Dion Green was held after the murder and where he says officers were spreading rumors about him to get him killed. Julie’s walking next to the warden as they go inside.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think this prison is… is this prison dangerous any more than others?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It has days where it’s had dangerous events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, and then, it’s had many days where it hasn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s what we’re being shown: a calm day. There’s a class going on in a treatment room, where men talk to a counselor about regulating their emotions. But I notice, even as that class is going on, these men are chained to the chairs they sit in. Next, the warden shows us the solitary cages outside the unit. Officially, they’re called IEYs, or individual exercise yards, but incarcerated people refer to them as the dog cages. The entourage of CDCR staff and reporters chat and laugh behind me as I approach a person looking out through the fencing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m a reporter with KQED Public Radio. Are you, um, down to talk to me today or no?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Depending on what.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just to ask you how your days is going and what your experience is here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I’ll talk.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Um, what’s your name?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, Patrick Anthony Bradley.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bradley says he’s been at this prison for six years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re gonna paint the pretty picture like it’s all good, but it’s, it’s really not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmm. What’s the, the picture that you would paint?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is, this is a terrible \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is terrible. Like, this is a terrible… it’s inhumane for anybody, for a, a, a patient, a inmate, a human being. Just conduct is disgusting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s kind of a strange scene. Like, I’m standing in between two worlds — the world Bradley lives in that’s bounded by the fence between us, a reality in his telling of corruption and darkness, and the world behind me represented by the warden and all the other prison officials standing just feet away, who repeatedly tell us their mission is safety and rehabilitation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They might, you know, clean, clean today, you know, make it look good, polish and all that, but it’s just a terrible place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm, yeah. Um, were you here when, the, the homicide happened in B8?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, probably.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s probably something you should be asking the feds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Patrick Anthony Bradley:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what I mean? So…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bradley raises his eyebrows meaningfully. I thank him for his time and turn around to try and get some more of my questions in front of the warden. One of my biggest questions was about use of force, what we’d seen in the data, and the whole reason we’d started investigating New Folsom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warden Lynch, I was gonna ask you. I know that their… like, use of force here at, um, CSP-SAC is a lot higher than any other prison in the state, and I was just wondering if you know kind of why that is or if it has something to do with the population here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re part of the high-security mission, which is a conglomerate of all of-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was expecting Lynch to give me some kind of explanation about how this prison is one of 10 high-security prisons, which means they’ve got people who’ve committed really serious crimes and have mental health issues. And he started with that, but then, Lynch totally surprised me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re probably pretty similar with the number of incidents for the mission that we belong in. If you-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. It’s, like, 30% higher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Than, uh, where?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All the other level fours.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, the, the data that, uh, we most recently looked at… Hey, Dana.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden calls over the then press secretary, Dana Simas.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The data that we were looking at for, uh, the use of force?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What about it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I was just wan-… I was just wanting, uh, to see if he had th-… uh, understanding of, like, why it’s so much higher here than everywhere else.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, that’s not really the case. Where are you seeing that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, in the data that CDCR gave me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, uh, you mean on the CompStat data?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, um, I would need to verify-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… ’cause I’ve looked at the data, and the data shows that, at SAC, the use of force rates are actually really comparable to other institutions that have this same level of population.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this tour, we double-checked our numbers and brought in help from a statistician in UC Berkeley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What they found is that the disparity was actually even greater than I’d thought. Between 2009 and 2023, the last year we have data for, officers at this prison used force at a rate almost 40% higher than any other prison in the state. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the course of months, we followed up repeatedly with CDCR about these numbers. At first, a spokesperson said the agency couldn’t confirm our analysis. When we asked for their analysis showing that New Folsom was in line with other high-security prisons, they didn’t respond. When we asked how the warden could be unaware of what an outlier his institution was, they didn’t respond. When we asked why there were so many more of these troubling incidents that we talked about earlier in this series, like what happened to the men Kevin Steele interviewed in the hospital, they didn’t respond. But as we continued on this tour, the warden assured me…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We, we look at it all the time and are always, um, aware of a lot of the, uh, the incidents that happen here, and we’ve got policies we follow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I move on to some of my questions about protocols that had seemed to allow the B8 homicide to happen, starting with their housing protocol regarding documented enemies like Dion Green and Michael Brit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you comment on, like, why Michael Britt was housed with Dion Green in B8 when that stabbing happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Restricted housing in general, and I can’t comment on Michael Britt, um, but restricted housing in general has the ability to confine inmates in, in, uh, secure areas that if enemy concerns existed wouldn’t ordinarily be, um, exposed to each other.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">His answer is kind of jargony, but what he’s saying is that really high-security housing units like B8 are set up so that enemies shouldn’t ever be able to get at each other, but he doesn’t address the failures that made that attack possible. And so, I follow up, trying to understand what happened after the attack. Why weren’t the three guys who’d tried to kill Brit separated either?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say a stabbing or an assault happens, and it’s coordinated between people, is it policy to then separate them from each other?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, I don’t know that there’s an actual policy that says… Uh, are you saying between the enemies?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Between in- inmates, so they are, like, coordinating, if they coordinate an assault on another inmate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know that there’s a policy that requires that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, um, but it-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That would fall under saf-… normal safety and security, um, classifications.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Dana Simas stepping in here again. She says, yes, maybe there’s not a specific policy that says this, but in general, yes, they separate crime partners. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And how do you deal with that if they’re, like, you know, all high security or all, you know, um, need solitary housing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There could be a different section, could be separated amongst different tiers. It… couple of different ways you could probably do it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All righty. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">CDCR declined to answer our follow-up questions about why Anthony Rodriguez, Cody Taylor, and Dion Green were not separated. But from what these officials are saying, it sure sounded like they never should have been in a position to murder Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But once again, it’s like we’re in different worlds, and it feels like the warden is saying that the world that I’ve seen — in incident reports I’ve read and heard about from numerous incarcerated people and correctional officers — just doesn’t exist. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s tough in a situation like this to get all the questions in that you wanna ask. It’s loud, and we each have a minder attached to us, but at one point during the tour, Julie is able to bring up Valentino with the warden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have been talking to the father of, uh, Valentino Rodriguez Jr., who was a correctional officer here. And I know you probably can’t get into specifics, but I’m wondering if you could just tell me, as a person, how you felt when you heard that he had died.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s, it’s sad when anybody passes away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you know him personally?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie says the family, including Valentino’s dad, have questions for him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Probably wouldn’t be able to comment on any, um, particular cases.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, he never heard from you at the prison, he said. Is that normal? Like, if somebody passes away, would you normally reach out to the family? Or, is that not-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, I’d prefer not to comment on-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… um, at this time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She asks the warden if he’ll sit down with us in a better setting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been reporting on prisons for a long time. I try to be fair, and I feel it… like it’s unfair when we don’t hear your side.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, but I think we can… whatever is fair within policy, we can do whatever we need to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll follow up with you on it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the moment, it seems like the warden might be willing to follow up with us later on. Then, after a walk through the restricted housing unit, they start to lead us back out toward the gates we came in through. I ask where the ISU is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The ISU is, uh, above B Facility.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Above B Facility. So-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… up there in the hill, kind of out of sight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it’s, like, right over there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">150 yards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden points off vaguely toward one of the buildings. From the outside, it doesn’t look like much — this place where the police force of the institution is based, where Sergeant Kevin Steele spent six years and where he grew more and more concerned about staff misconduct being ignored. And the place where Valentino Rodriguez spent his weekends writing reports and booking evidence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. We got, we got a ton.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we pass back out through the checkpoint and under the blue tower, the warden seems to visibly relax the closer we get to the main entrance gate.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What to you is the most significant policy change that has happened? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my career? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden thinks about it as we walk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s been a lot of significant things, and it’s real easy to focus on what’s most current, which for us, over the past six months has been, uh, the, uh, the body worn cameras and the stationary cameras.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">CDCR was actually ordered by a judge to implement body cams at certain other prisons as part of an ongoing class action lawsuit against the agency, and they started rolling them out here at New Folsom too. I’ve talked to incarcerated people who say the body cams can help, but they’re not an easy fix because the institution can refuse to review the footage. And they sometimes delete it long before they’re supposed to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve also talked to officers who say the cameras can help them justify their actions if they’re called into question. As we head toward the outer gate, I’ve been waiting for the right moment to ask the warden about Sergeant Kevin Steele, but I misunderstand how long the tour is. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nope. This is about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">May have been a-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… misunderstanding. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we’ll make sure you guys are all checked out on equipment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve got more time and suddenly we’re by the gate, so I turn to the warden. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know you had a, you had a pretty high profile, uh, officer suicide here with Kevin, officer, Sergeant Kevin Steele, and I’m just wondering kind of how you processed that and how you support people to process that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say it one more time. How I process and how what? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y- how, and how other, how you support other correctional staff when their colleague has committed suicide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We provide all the resources that we can. Um, how I process it \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughing]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is the sa-… It’s, it is sad when there’s any staff death, um, and a lot of the examples, I think back on time, you know, a lot of the s- not a lot, but the staff that I’ve been connected to, uh, particularly at this prison that have gone through it, I mean, it, it weighs on all of us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden says they provide many services to officers, including peer support, and that he really understands the importance of taking care of your mental health. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My, uh, my message has always been it’s hard to be a good partner, a good father, a good spouse or a good son or daughter if you’re not taking care of yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once again, I’m having this moment of disconnect between what the warden is saying and what I’ve heard from officers — that they can’t trust that peer support will stay private, that they have to take time off unpaid when they’re struggling, or pay out of pocket to attend PTSD seminars. And that when you call the state employee hotline to try and access therapy, you still have to wait weeks to get an appointment to talk to someone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you know that, um, Sergeant Steele was suffering m- with his mental health? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I knew that he took some time off work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And do y- why was he banned from this institution? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know that’s something that I can, uh, comment on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can’t? Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I try one more time to ask the warden what he did when he found out that Steele had died, but Dana Simas steps in again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s an inappropriate question to comment on-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whoa…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dana Simas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… a specific person, specific case. Um, it’s, it’s not appropriate for us to do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has us check out our equipment and we say goodbye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you, Mr. Lynch. I appreciate it. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to meet you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Sounds of wind and walking]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What time is it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know it’s only noon. I thought it was gonna-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I thought we would be there forever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I thought we would have more time.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The two and a half hours we were in there felt much longer and not long enough at the same time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s interesting, like, just kind of standing out here, and you, like, look around, and you’ve got the beautiful oak trees in leaf-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… and the green rolling hills, and the architecture of that opening gate, you know, while it’s, uh, you know, cement and, and somewhat brutalistic, it also has a little bit of aesthetic beauty to it, and, like, the deeper in you get, like, the less beauty there is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Standing back outside the gates, back in a world where no one is looking down on us with deadly weapons, where we aren’t surrounded by razor wire and concrete, I can feel something in me that’s been clenched… relax. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just, like, the s- gradual stripping away. Like, talking to correctional officers who talked about walking through this gate every day, and, that, like, each gate further in, the mental kind of armor that they would kind of have to put on more and more and more. Um, and then it’s like, you’re a, you’re a human being out here, and in there, you’re not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you’ve probably guessed, that sit down interview we’d asked for with the warden never happened. We also sent a detailed list of questions about the institutional response to Valentino’s allegations, but a spokesperson for CDCR declined to answer those questions and said that wardens can’t comment on personnel matters. But lucky for us, that was not the end of things, because while Warden Jeff Lynch didn’t have to answer our questions, he did have to answer someone else’s. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you ever, uh, meet with Officer Rodriguez? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. And where did you meet? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my office. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Warden Jeff Lynch testifying at an evidentiary hearing that was held in the summer of 2022. If you remember, some officers had gotten disciplined over the offensive group texts in Valentino’s phone, and two men were even fired… including Daniel Garland, the man who’d sent Valentino that video of his son at the gym threatening to slap him. Garland along with three other officers had appealed their discipline. At this hearing, an administrative law judge is gonna listen to that appeal and decide if their discipline should stand or be overturned. The warden is called as a witness for CDCR to talk about what Valentino had told him in that meeting the week before he died. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Heads up, this testimony references slurs, but we have bleeped them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He indicated he was referred to at times as a-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Please. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… as a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Um, he said, uh, the use of… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… the w- the word \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was used up there often. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Officer personnel matters are usually confidential, but we were able to get these recordings because of a new state-wide transparency law that unsealed records related to discriminatory behavior by law enforcement. This would give us a rare look inside this process, and we’d get to hear from some key figures in Valentino’s story about the events leading up to his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did he ever indicate if he had any physical manifestations as a result of these problems he was having with the other ISU staff? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think, uh, he had mentioned that, uh, he wasn’t sleeping well at home. He was throwing up a lot at work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warden Lynch says he asked Valentino to write up a statement with all his allegations. So far, this was all stuff we pretty much knew about. But then, the lawyer for the officers finally asks the warden about something we’d only heard about from Valentino’s wife Mimy — the allegations that the ISU squad, the police force for the prison, had been dirty. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, he made quite a few allegations, did he not? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, a- not only, uh, just about the way he was treated in ISU, but other more serious allegations, correct? Including about officers in ISU planting drugs on inmates? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, objections. Relevance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s CDCR’s lawyer objecting. They don’t want to go down this road. I’m not totally sure why the officer’s lawyer brings this up either. This hearing is not about those allegations, but because she asks about it, we finally got this little window into the warden’s actions after he met with Valentino. The judge allows the question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Judge:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll allow the question. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there being uncontrolled weapons in ISU?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uncontrolled weapons are weapons that have been seized, but not yet booked into evidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you directed, um, I believe it was… Uh, I don’t know if he was a sergeant or lieutenant at that time, but \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. And, um, I believe Lieutenant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to search the ISU office?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A little later in the hearing, Officer Martin Fong, who’d been in the ISU and who’d gotten a pay cut for his part in some of the ugly group texts was also asked about this search. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We came into the office, normal morning, just as, you know, we’re just kinda w- warming up in the morning and then, uh-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says it was the day before Valentino died. The ISU officers and the chief deputy warden, Gena Jones, came into the office. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was kind of weird because usually \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> doesn’t pop in that early but it’s like, “Hey, whatever.” And she’s, she looks at me and Jordan, and she goes, “I need to talk to you and you.” I’m like, “Oh.” Like, “This is out of the ordinary” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fong says at first he thinks maybe they’re going to get some praise for a recent case, but then Jones pulls them out into the hallway.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just basically says, “Hey, I wanna, I want you to hear from me first, but your desk… Uh, I had Lieutenant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and Lieutenant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> search your desk. There’s allegations, uh, that there was weapons and… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[inaudible]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> there’s phones and narcotics in your desk.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another staff member had made these claims against them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, “Why are they doing?” Like, “I have a target on my back now or what?” But they weren’t just trying to get me removed from the unit. They were, they were trying to get me fired, or, you know, like, that’s some serious allegations. And so that devastated me ’cause of it, it, it challenged my, or it pretty much trying to discredit my character and everything I’ve worked for. And I got emotional, and I broke down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A weapon and some metal were found in his desk. We don’t know exactly what this weapon looked like, but I want to be clear here that from the context, it seems like this isn’t a gun or a baton or a weapon officers would use, but what’s called by CDCR an “inmate manufactured weapon.” So a shiv or something like that, that would usually be stored in evidence after being confiscated. But this weapon, Fong says, had a different purpose. He kept it in his desk as a show-and-tell item. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Martin Fong:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have a lot of tours that came up there and there’s a shadow board that has weapons, but s- sometimes to actually hold and, and look at a weapon, it, it’s a tangible item. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden says, even though a weapon was found, he believed Fong’s explanation of why it was there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that you understood that Officer Fong was using it for some sort of training event?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was my understanding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, and so, so based on your understanding, it was not improper for Officer Fong to have this weapon in his desk? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Warden Jeff Lynch:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, based upon what was reported to me, um, but I didn’t know the, the origin of the weapon either.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I ran this by the former sergeant who you heard from last episode who knew a lot about internal affairs. I wanted to see if this made sense to him — to have an improvised weapon in your desk for training purposes. He said it did not. If you wanted a weapon to use for training, you would check it out of evidence. There would be a paper trail. Ultimately, the search did not result in any reprimand or discipline for officers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unfortunately, in this hearing, no one followed up to ask the warden our biggest questions. Why had he chosen this as the way to handle Valentino’s allegations in the first place? If substantiated, evidence of planted drugs or weapons could have massive implications, from tainted criminal cases to charges for the warden’s own cops. But the warden didn’t immediately call in internal affairs, special agents who might have set up a sting operation or pulled phone records. Instead, Lynch has his own in-house people, the direct supervisors of the officers in question, go in and do this strangely casual search of their desks. By making this choice, the warden, also whether knowingly or not, likely exposed Valentino as a whistleblower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hours before Mimy Rodriguez got home and found her husband on the bathroom floor, one of the last texts he sent said, “It’s out now that I told on the team.” After Valentino died, and Val Sr. filed a complaint with internal affairs and handed over his son’s phone, a special agent did start looking into some things. Their investigation didn’t substantiate the claims of planted drugs and weapons, but it’s not clear that they really looked into those claims. The report does note one more thing about Valentino’s meeting with the warden and the subsequent search that makes no sense. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Internal Affairs asked the warden to turn over any notes or memos about these two events. The warden told them he couldn’t find any documentation of either event. \u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Listening through these hearings, we also got to finally hear from one of the people that Val Sr. held responsible for how Valentino had been treated in the ISU — Sergeant David Anderson, Valentino’s boss, the guy who’d been on some of the text threads and who Valentino said had threatened him. He’d been called to testify by the lawyer for the officers, and she asks him what was meant by that nickname they’d given Valentino: half-patch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was more of a term of endearment, um, like a brother or a friend, a close friend is the term that, uh, they used it in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Objection, speculation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Judge:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sustained. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lawyer then asks Anderson if he heard other terms used — homophobic slurs, racial slurs, and his answer each time is-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not that I can recall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when CDCR’s lawyer cross-examines him, she confronts him with his prior testimony to internal affairs, in which he admitted hearing these terms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It must’ve slipped my mind. I apologize for that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in fact, you heard Officer Garland use the term \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">–\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… in the ISU office? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And during that same office of internal affairs interview, you admitted to hearing Officer Garland use the term \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the office.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What page is that on? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you could just close that and- if you don’t recall?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t recall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s one I… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, and if I could direct your attention to page 73. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">73?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 1:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m going to direct your attention to lines 13 through 19. Special Agent \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> says, “Earlier we talked about the term \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with an A at the end.” You respond, “Yeah.” He then says, “Did you hear staff use that?” You respond, “Yeah.” “Who did you hear?” And you respond, “Officer Garland.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>David Anderson:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, yes. Now that I’m reading this, it does, uh, I’m able to remember that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We still don’t know if the department imposed any discipline on Anderson. He could’ve been one of the people who got reprimanded in connection with Valentino’s case for failure to report misconduct, but if so… those details aren’t public.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We know from employment records that Anderson was promoted to lieutenant at New Folsom in July of 2022, the month after he gave this testimony. During this hearing, the lawyer for the officers also called each of them to speak in their own defense. And I’m gonna focus on Daniel Garland’s testimony, since you’ve heard the most about his actions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long were you with the CDCR? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just under 19 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, and, um, how did you get into corrections? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My brothers were, uh, were inmates. My mother and my father were locked up, so I’ve always had some kind of connection to corrections. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Garland says getting a job as an officer changed his life, and this personal history gave him a unique empathy to do that job. But he says it was also hard work. He was exposed to terrible things and assaulted, and he and Valentino were there for each other in the harsh environment of the prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was like a little brother. He was becoming… You know, he was becoming closer and like a little brother. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lawyer says they’ve heard a lot about Garland’s words. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe generally the way you speak?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I say, I say inappropriate things, and I say them in inappropriate times. But I’m, I’m, I’m usually doing it a- as hard as it is for people in here to understand, I’m usually doing it in an encouraging manner. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he says he didn’t even know it bothered Valentino until after he’d died, when someone else in the office said something to him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sergeant \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[censored]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> made several comments about, “We killed Rodriguez.” And he made certain comments that specifically me and Jordan killed Rodriguez. And so we, we put in a, a complaint against him, and that was the first time that I had any idea of anything with Rodriguez. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The tape is redacted, but the sergeant he’s talking about here has to be Steele. We know Steele was really upset about Valentino’s death and blamed these guys who’d been so hard on him. That complaint that Garland and another officer filed against Steele didn’t go anywhere. Then the article about Valentino’s death and Garland’s text messages came out in the paper, the Sacramento Bee.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What impact did these articles have on you a- at the time they came out?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I- It destroyed me. It destroyed my character. It, uh… As soon as the articles come out, it just… My daughter, my daughter had to go to homeschooling. I mean, uh, it just destroyed everything. It destroyed my life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then his lawyer asks Garland a question that she asks each of the officers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I- If you were able to say something about this situation to Officer Rodriguez’s father in light of everything that’s gone on, what would you say to him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 2:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Objection. Relevance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Daniel Garland:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I would just like to let him know that for the, for the time that he was in ISU, that he had a good time and he had fun and we, we all, we all had fun. We all enjoyed his son and that it wasn’t, it wasn’t what he was told. It’s not what… Rodriguez didn’t have a bad time in ISU. Rodriguez loved ISU. He loved working with us and he, he said the same things I said back and forth and I never got offended by him and I, I never felt he was offended. And I, I just wanna let his father know that we did respect his son and that we, we enjoyed his son and that I’m s- I’m really sorry for his loss. I just, I feel bad for him. I- I’m a father and it’s so- something you shouldn’t see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In closing, the officer’s lawyer argues that in this case, that’s basically just about bad language, dismissal and long pay cuts are too severe. They were all veteran officers with great reputations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Officers’ Lawyer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The question is for these four gentlemen, should they either have their careers ended or be hampered, uh, for years financially and with, with the stigma of this discipline based on what were private communications, banter, blowing off steam, were words? They were just bad words. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The attorney for CDCR goes last. He says any reasonable person looking over these messages would understand that they’re harmful and that they had accumulative effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 2:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This beat down at the office and over text that he took from these officers had its effect over time, and that’s why, that’s why it took a while until he reached his breaking point to start reporting it to people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, he points back to the officers’ own testimony.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>CDCR Lawyer 2:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Council’s question to the appellants about, you know, “What, what would you say to Rodriguez’s father if you had a chance to do so?” And it was intended to be emotional testimony, but I think it’s notable that not one of the appellants, not one of them indicated that they would tell him that they were sorry for anything that they did. In fact, several of them said that they would try to convince the, the father that they did nothing wrong — that they didn’t intend to do anything wrong. They treated ISU like their own junior high locker room. They, they bullied, uh, Rodriguez. They, they went after him. They called him horrible names, yet they s- they, they got on the stand and said, “I wouldn’t… I would not say anything to him indicating that I’m sorry for what I did.” A- And, and that right there is the biggest evidence that the likelihood of reoccurrence is high. Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s how the eight days of hearings came to a close. There was one other person who we’d hoped to hear in these recordings, but didn’t, the chief deputy warden, Gena Jones. She wasn’t called by either side, which seems strange. Jones is the person Valentino first broke down to when he felt he had to leave the prison, and she was directly in charge of the ISU. Since Valentino’s death, she has also been promoted. She is now a warden of the prison in Stockton, California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The judge issued his recommendation a little while later, which was adopted by the state personnel board, which is basically the HR department for the state. And we were able to get that decision through a public record’s request.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. So, this is from… We got this last night from the state personnel board.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are the decisions that they made about the appeals brought by, uh, Garland, Jordan, uh, Bettencourt and Fong.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie met up with Val Sr. to show him the documents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first thing to know is that the state personnel board upheld all the decisions, so that means that Garland is still fired, and Jordan’s fired, and Fong and Bettencourt had their pay docked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, I’m glad that you s- you, you told me first before we went on, ’cause, uh, my heart was racing. So, that’s good that they upheld the decisions. Um, I’m interested to hear what, what they had to say. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I can imagine, you know, that, “We were just joking around with him,” or whatever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says it was in his son’s nature to forgive, to try and get along with people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s really easy for someone to look at the text messages and see that he’s being friendly at times with these same guys, even after he leaves, but th- that was his personality, you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s one of those things you can’t beat out of your kid-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… ’cause he’s just a nice person, you know? He was always tugging at me and saying, “Look what I did, dad,” you know? Uh, he always… Like, th- they call them guys apple polishers, you know? \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Yeah, that was just my son. He was just a little apple polisher. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I want their attorney to realize, that’s, that’s the kind of person he was. He was a, he was a little boy in a man’s shell, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Following this hearing, these officers appealed their discipline to the state superior court, and that appeal is still pending. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for Val Sr., this narrowing of the investigation, two officers fired for saying bad words, does not address the underlying machine that enabled that conduct.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everybody is just protecting themselves, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we were rolling out this podcast, we were also staying in touch with Val Sr. and one day he texted Julie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like he wrote me this morning saying something like, “Well, Steele promised me I’d know the truth and it would be hard.” I mean, uh, so, he’s got something new to tell us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Boy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know what it is, or if it’s just reading it from Steele like that. I, I don’t know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Val Sr. had finally gotten a chance to read the book that Kevin Steele had been working on before he passed away, and so Julie and I met up with him to talk about it a few days later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, we really just wanted to check in with you and see, you know, what is… How you’re feeling, but also just, you know, you had a chance to read the book.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was, I was highlighting things and I was like, “Man, could just… You could highlight the whole thing sometimes.” It’s-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele’s widow, Lily, shared the manuscript with him, and she also gave us permission to read some parts of it here. The first page is a list of titles Steele was considering. At the top…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Thin Line Blurs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How to Kill a Cop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Betrayal.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The book begins with a line that’s very on brand for him. “This book is dedicated and faithfully devoted to the truth.” The dedication is heavy with Steele’s disillusionment and hurt. “Within this book, you will read the story about how corruption and criminality were treated as celebrities. Prowlers, bandits and punks were granted immunity for dirty deeds and acts of criminality, while the whistle-blowers and law-abiding staff were pursued, harassed and persecuted. This story was never intended to be told.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The stories he tells are many of the stories that you have already heard throughout this podcast. He writes about meeting Ronny Price in the hospital with his teeth knocked out and his face smashed in after being tripped by officers, and how the incarcerated man died the next day of his injuries.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele writes about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar and questions, “Did CDCR peace officers, the individuals who are commissioned and duty-bound to be professional, fair, honest and ethical, become complicit in the slaughter of an inmate?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he writes about his friend, Valentino Rodriguez.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was hard to read, and then every time I went back into it, it got a little easier to read.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There were parts that Val Sr. found touching, like Steele’s description of how hard his son worked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Valentino was just trying to make his supervisors, the institution and his chosen profession flash, sparkle and glimmer. Valentino was happy and filled with pride when something he was working on gained positive recognition and attention.” And that, that is exactly the way he was when he was a, when he was a boy. He was the same, same way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there were parts like this one that made Val Sr. very angry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Valentino would often make comments to me that he was treated as the office bitch and given very little praise and gratitude.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s clear from the book that Valentino’s death is a turning point for Steel. He keeps waiting for the institution to respond with care, concern, and accountability, but that’s not what he sees. The day after Valentino died the warden wanted to talk to Steele, and here’s Val Sr. again reading what Steele wrote about this meeting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I remained standing in the middle of the office. I was still attempting to fully grasp the significance and magnitude of Valentino’s death as I was openly crying in plain view of Warden Lynch and Lieutenant Strohmaier.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden wanted to find out what Steele knew. Steele writes that he shared everything Valentino had told him, and then waited for the warden to react.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Without any hesitation, Warden Lynch calmly remained seated with his right leg crossed over his left leg and very casually said, ‘Well, you haven’t told me anything I didn’t already know.'”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The warden could just be acknowledging that he’d already heard these same things from Valentino himself a few days earlier. But to Steele, this reaction is evidence of the warden’s callousness and preoccupation with self-protection. Steele began to view everything through this lens. The institution he’d have given his life for was starting to treat him as a threat. He writes that the friction in the ISU office was increasing. In one instance, he says that his boss told him, quote, that, “Some staff were starting to consider me as an ‘inmate lover’ as I was spending too much time talking to inmates.” He writes that another boss emailed him asking about his retirement plans. And someone else told him that his bosses were talking about him behind closed doors. “The main topic of discussion within these meetings was how to stimulate my departure without making it appear as workplace retaliation.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I kind of could see how they were systematically picking him apart until his death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kevin Steele died, his manuscript was 104 pages, but it wasn’t finished. There were some things Val Sr. was expecting to see in those pages but didn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe it’s my suspicions and they’re not confirmed there. You know? But he got, he got about as far into that book as um, I, I needed him to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We still have questions for Steele that aren’t answered in his book, like what had he and Valentino shared with each other about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar? What happened in that last call Steele had with internal affairs? And could things have turned out differently?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many of Steele’s friends and colleagues have also struggled to understand his death and everything that led up to it, and some of them are speaking up now because they want answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s why we’re here as well is to find the truth finally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is retired correctional officer Annette Eichhorn. She worked as a tower copy at New Folsom. She says Valentino and Steele’s deaths should be a wake up call.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now two of them that are dead because to find the truth. That should shock the shit out of everybody-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… that’s still there. And I don’t understand how it’s not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette came into our recording studio with her friend, Paul Crews, who also retired from the prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was a correctional officer the last almost 21 years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul was a control booth officer. As you’ve heard throughout this podcast, we’ve often had to agree to confidentiality or anonymity for officers. But these two officers agreed to sit down with us and talk on the record because they wanna stand up for Steele.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s few people that we would be speaking out for.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Cause this is a guy that was always looking out for us, as… Not just “us” singular. “Us” plural and “us” as a department.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And as Annette says, they want to try and find the truth among the sea of rumors that started going around after Steele’s picture was posted at the gate banning him from the institution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I went up to a few people and said, what is, what’s up with Steel? F him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette wasn’t sure why people at the prison had turned on Steele. Paul says he called Steele on the phone in early 2021, but he didn’t know Steele was out of the prison, or that he’d been banned. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He picked up the phone, so I contacted him, not knowing anything that was going on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul hadn’t been at work for months because he’d been rehabbing from an injury, but now he was supposed to go back to work and he was calling Steele because he was really struggling and he needed Steele to know something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, “Kevin, this is what’s going on.” I… It was all about me on that conversation at that point. “I’m on this particular drug. I don’t think I should be in a control booth. I shouldn’t be doing anything with this job until I get me right.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul told Steele he’d had a meltdown and been put on psychiatric medication. Steele was the guy who drug tested officers at the prison, and so, Paul needed him to know that this medication would be showing up in his urine.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Were you at that low point then when you called him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was, I was at a low point, but I was at such a low point, my, my wife was looking at me like, “I need your, your safe key.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The key to the gun safe. Paul says his wife was worried that he might take his own life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, “I’m there.” She says, “We don’t know.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hmmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said, “What do you mean we?” The kids didn’t know. So, “Sure. Have my damn keys,” \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, “you know, if that makes you feel happy.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul told Steele what he was going through.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then he told me, he’s like, “Well, I’m… I haven’t been there since November.” I’m like, “November? What, what happened?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele had actually stopped working at the prison in December, and then gone to Missouri in January. After the notice banning him, Steele had started to suspect he was under investigation, but he didn’t know what for — and he told Paul he couldn’t talk about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was like, “All right. Well, that aside, are you mentally okay?” ‘Cause he didn’t sound right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To me, he didn’t sound right. And he said, “I’m just frustrated, you know?” I was like, “Okay. Well, I’ve always been that guy, somebody you can call and talk to no matter what. Um, I’d rather you talk than blow your head off. I just… We know too many people that that happened to.” And, um, he’s like, “No, I’m not there.” And I was like, “Okay.” And he kind of, like, told me, “Everything is gonna come out in the wash, but right now, I’m ou- out a job.” Well, I was like, “All right. Well, I’m gonna check on you every so often.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul says for some reason, talking to Steele helped him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My problem didn’t seem so big anymore. It was kind of like… In a weird way, it was kind of like a reset.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette was going through her own struggles with the department and would text and talk with Steele about what he was going through. She says he was crushed when he heard they were trying to make him look corrupt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re switching it to where, no Steele is helping this inmate with his attorney and, um, um, turning on his own people, and that’s why he, he, he had to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annette says Steele told her he wished he’d never opened his mouth.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s like, “I shouldn’t have talked.” He’s all, “My life would have been so much better.” I was like, “Steele, you know you couldn’t.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You, you know you could not live with yourself if you just ignored Rodriguez.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over his years at the institution, Steele had seen so much, assaults and cover-ups and over and over again, he’d been told that, “There was a process in place. People would be held accountable. Just trust the system.” Now, he felt that system had turned on him. We can’t see the full internal affairs file on Steele, but we were able to get a summary report about what he was being investigated for and what the outcome was. Here are the allegations. Number one, circumventing the prison’s legal mail process by sending a scanned letter from an incarcerated person to their attorney. Number two, he allegedly met with an incarcerated person and lied that it was for an attorney visit. And number three, he, “Released a confidential memorandum to a member of the public after the Office of Internal Affairs ordered the sergeant not to communicate with that member of the public. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That last allegation against Steele was the easiest to decode. It was about Steele’s own memo — that explosive one that he sent to the warden that we read you earlier in this series. The member of the public that he sent it to, as we know, was Val Sr., who he’d already been told not to talk to. The second allegation that Steele met with an incarcerated person and lied about it being for an attorney visit didn’t go anywhere, and it couldn’t be substantiated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for a long time, we weren’t sure what the first allegation was really about. Had Steele been helping someone get around the legal mail process and secretly communicate with their lawyers? And then we were leaked those tapes and memos, and we began to put two and two together. We found out that there were these two letters that Dion Green wrote to the warden. He was worried about his safety because word was spreading that he was a whistleblower. In one of the videos we got, Steele actually holds up one of these letters to the camera.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then the other one, I told you that I’m going to, um, email to your attorney.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then that was at your request. It wasn’t something that I suggested or asked you to do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what this is about. These letters seem like they were Green’s insurance policy in case something happened to him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So on two occasions, Steele emailed copies of Green’s letters to both the warden and to Green’s attorney. But legal mail is still supposed to go through proper channels and the actual physical mail. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But here’s the thing that makes this investigation so weird. You can see in Steele’s correspondence that this was not some sneaky thing he did. Both times, he explicitly tells the warden he’s doing it. It isn’t until months later that Internal Affairs starts investigating Steele for this. And that investigation was still going on when he died. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Paul and Annette that after Steele’s death, the agency finished that internal investigation and found that Steele had violated policy by sending those letters and forwarding the memo he wrote to Val Sr.. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They completed the Internal Affairs investigation after he died and imposed a 10% pay cut for 12 months.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After he died?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After he died.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How can they do that after he died? Are you serious?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the fuck is wrong with these people? What the… This is how far they can go. They gotta nail that, literally nail the nail in the coffin on his name. That fucking pisses me off. Fuck them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I needed to hear that. We needed to… What the fuck is their narrative that they thought that they can do that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Crews:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s dirty as shit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichhorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s dirty as shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The discipline deemed appropriate for Steele’s offenses — sending scanned letters over email to an attorney, and sending his own memo to Val Sr. — was a pay cut for a full year. This was greater than the discipline imposed on any of the officers who’d failed to protect Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But because he was dead, the discipline was suspended. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the state’s Office of the Inspector General for prisons about Steele’s case because the timing of it, the nature of it really looks like retaliation. And it’s part of their job to investigate complaints of whistleblower retaliation. A spokesperson said they couldn’t comment on his case but that it was protocol for CDCR to complete investigations even after an officer’s death, and that, “The act of whistleblowing does not insulate a person from being subjected to a legitimate investigation into allegations that the whistleblower engaged in misconduct.”\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As far as we can tell, this is the only mark on his record — the only time the agency disciplined him for anything.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Steele’s disciplinary record, and his book, and even this podcast so far… don’t detail all of Steele’s efforts to expose misconduct in the agency. Some of those efforts we haven’t gone into. We don’t know the full picture\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there is one more case that Steele got involved in that I want to tell you about briefly, because I think it shows how far Steele had traveled from the man who showed up to work early each morning, full of faith in his institution. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the month before his death Steele was in communication with an attorney, who under other circumstances he likely would have considered on the other side of things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Would you mind just starting off by telling us who you are and what you do, Steve?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I’m Steve Glickman. I’m an attorney in Los Angeles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Glickman was suing CDCR on behalf of the family of a man who died in the prison. That death was reported as a suicide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We had not a single clue that there was anything other than a suicide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Glickman says another lawyer gave him a tip — that he should get in contact with a man named Sgt. Kevin Steele. So he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a shocking, chilling conversation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele told Glickman he’d interviewed an incarcerated man who’d confessed it was actually a murder and that he had committed it. This was surprising to Glickman because that confession was not among the evidence that CDCR had turned over about the case, and they were supposed to turn over everything. On the phone, Steele told the lawyer that he’d part of gathering that evidence and noticed this key interview was missing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He complained to one of his supervisors and he learned that the inmate Clark, the one who had confessed to the murder, was actually working for the security, in- internal security office there at the prison. And, and so his feeling as he expressed to me was, is that’s why it was being covered up — because this guy was an informant for the, the prison system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says that Steele was scheduled to give a deposition in his lawsuit, but before that happened–\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was called actually by a newspaper reporter who told me that, uh, Steel had committed suicide under suspicious circumstances. So we never, we never were able to get his testimony under oath. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, what did you think when you got that call? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve Glickman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was shocked. I was shocked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The agency settled that suit for $250,000 earlier this year. Steele doesn’t mention this case in his manuscript, maybe because he hadn’t gotten to it yet,but the final pages show that he was researching the case law around whistleblowing, and what protections he might be entitled to. And what he discovered is that there were actually relatively few. And here is the fundamental catch–22 that correctional officers like Steele face: if there’s a policy against sharing confidential information and an officer shares it anyways, even if the purpose is to blow the whistle on misconduct, the officer can still be punished.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yet, on the day they join the academy, correctional officers also swear an oath… an oath to uphold the law. And so, what are they supposed to do if they come to believe that their own institution is breaking it?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The lack of protections for whistleblowers is not a new problem for CDCR. 20 years ago, the state Senate called for hearings about CDCR’s failure to police itself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Gloria Romero:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can the California Department of Corrections police itself? The answer, I believe, is no. But starting today, it must…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And a persistent code of silence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Gloria Romero:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Code of silence at the highest level of government. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The testimony sounds eerily familiar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>D.J. Vodicka:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He yelled, “Hey, you big old snitch, you big old rat. Who you telling on now?” And I felt really threatened by that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Woman:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m a family member of an inmate. My husband is in prison. He’s currently at Ironwood. He was up at Pelican Bay, and guards tried to have him killed by putting an inmate in his cell. He was very, very, very badly hurt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Jackie Speier:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s frightening to me is that there are correctional officers within the institution at all of our state prisons that feel they cannot come forward for fear of retaliation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mike Jimenez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, there are. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sen. Jackie Speier:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that should be of concern to you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mike Jimenez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the impetus for these hearings was the suicide of a captain who’d reported concerns about a massive riot that officers delayed responding to. The captain was demoted and threatened by his colleagues, according to news reports. “My job has killed me,” the captain wrote in his suicide note. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After Valentino died and after Kevin Steele died, both Mimy Rodriguez and Lili Steele had a decision to make. In order to get husbands’ death benefits right away, they could sign a release form stating that their deaths were unrelated to their jobs. But neither widow could bring themselves to sign that piece of paper. Lili told me it would’ve felt like stabbing her husband in the back. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So instead, they filed worker’s compensation claims with the state. This was a difficult process, but Lili said this was her way of saying, “I know what you people did to him.” Initially those claims were denied, but after a fight they were granted. Both Kevin and Valentino’s deaths were found to be the result of mental injuries sustained in their profession as correctional officers for the State of California. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lili said when she got the call about that decision, she sobbed. She told me she was overcome with emotion to have someone acknowledge what had happened, and that they believed her. Mimy says she also remembers getting that call.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just said, “Okay. Thank you.” And then I cried when I got off the phone. But I, I, I knew it was going on. Like, I knew that this was… had to do with his job. Oh, that’s all he talked about. The night that he passed, I remember when I was getting put in the back of the cop car, I remember yelling at the cop, like, telling her, like, “Quit your job. Like, this job is gonna cause you so much stress. Look what happened.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mimy says when she and Valentino first met, his job was one of the things she loved about him. She also had plans to go into the field herself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mimy Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a field that I had a lot of respect for, still have a lot of respect for, but it’s also something that is permanently engraved of “I know what happens here. I know what happened here.” And it’s hard not to look at it differently now and feel differently now. I didn’t realize it was gonna be like this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On paper, California’s $14 billion a year prison system is an institution that’s trying the Norway model — the cutting edge of progressive and humane policies that focuses on reintegration and emotional wellbeing. An institution that bans discrimination, that promises to protect the people in its custody, that forbids the code of silence. And yet, we’ve found the reality inside this system is very different from the promise. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our review of 80 cases of officer discrimination going back to 2015 found the type of abuse that Valentino experienced happened across institutions. The most common type of discrimination in these cases disclosed to us was sexual harassment. Yet on its own, even egregious misconduct often did not lead to firing. And this culture is important because sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly it enforces the code of silence and even more serious misconduct goes unreported. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Along with off-the-charts use of force at New Folsom Prison, our analysis of CDCR’s data found another troubling trend. Despite damning reports from the Office of the Inspector General of prisons, the rate officers used force across all high security prisons in the state between 2009 and last year increased by 137%. This gap between what the system promises and what it delivers is the gap that swallowed up incarcerated people like Ronnie Price and Luis Giovanny Aguilar. And this is the gap that Valentino Rodriguez and Kevin Steele fell into as well. The agency will not discuss their cases, and their names do not appear among the fallen officers memorialized on CDCR’s website, but they are not alone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In terms of overall numbers of correctional officers who’ve died by suicide like Steele, it’s hard to get an exact number. There are about 30,000 peace officers employed in California’s prison agency. A 2017 UC Berkeley survey of some officers found that one in 10 reported suicidal thoughts. But CDCR said they don’t track employee suicides out of respect for their privacy.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The California Correctional Officers Union provided me with a list that they had gathered, informally by word of mouth, institution by institution. So it’s not a complete list, and it’s not even a list of names, but simply dates of death. There are 24 dates on this list — 24 current or former officers who died since the beginning of 2020. Since I got that list in May last year, I heard about six more officers and a former warden who died by suicide, bringing the number to 31; at least 31 peace officers who took their own lives since 2020. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The union contact who gave me that list said, “If these deaths were happening in any other profession, someone would be calling for an investigation,” and yet he can’t even get a solid count to understand the scope of the problem. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The number of officers who simply died too young, like Valentino, often due to stress, heart attacks, and substance use issues is likely even greater. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul, the retired correctional officer, told me among officers, it’s become a kind of dark joke. When someone leaves the profession, on the 5th anniversary of their retirement, they throw a party to celebrate that, unlike so many of their colleagues, they are still alive. Like a lot of officers, Kevin Steele and Valentino Rodriguez signed up to work for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation because of the promise of good benefits, early retirement, a family of fellow officers. Now their actual families are left without them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My biggest regret is that that day he died, I just didn’t take him for a long ride with me and talk. We were, we were due for one, and I just… You know, you just don’t know. This, uh, opportunity there and you just don’t know. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if I woulda been able to save him. I, I know I could have. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s one of the hardest things about being a parent. When they’re little, you can protect them from things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know where they’re going. You can keep them close. And then…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They go out in the world.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since the podcast came out, Val Sr. has had good days and bad days. He hopes something big will come from this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think, um, most importantly, this is probably my last stand. Um, I don’t, I don’t know what else I can do. You know, I just always pray that, God willing, it’s, it’s for a, a good, a good thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says it’ll be a relief in a way to come to the end of this project, but he’ll also miss it. It’s been a way for him to keep Valentino alive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr.:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll never stop, ever stop thinking about my son. No, he’s just too, uh… I just loved him too much.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’ve been listening to the final episode of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom from KQED. While this is the last episode of the series we will let you know if we get any more breakthroughs in our reporting. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to: onourwatch@kqed.org \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you to the people who knew and loved Valentino Rodriguez and Kevin Steele for sharing their stories with us. And thanks to all the correctional officers who spoke to us for this series, whose voices you often did not hear on the podcast, but who informed us about the challenges of their profession. If you are a whistleblower, you can find support online including at TheLampLighterproject.org which is especially for law enforcement whistleblowers. And we’ve links to other resources in our episode description and on our website. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We also want to thank the families of Ronnie Price and Luis Giovanny Aguilar for opening up to us about their loved ones. And huge gratitude to the incarcerated people who spoke to us under very difficult and dangerous circumstances, including Joel Uribe, Mario Gonzalez, Mario Valenzuela and many more. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauléon. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fouda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn, and Laura Fitzgerald — students in the Investigative Reporting Program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past two years… so many journalists have helped with this series… We got research support from graduate students Elizabeth Santos, Cayla Mihalovich, Julietta Bisharyan, William Jenkins, Armon Owlia, Vera Watt, and Junyao Yang. Thanks also to UC Berkeley’s Jeremy Rue, Amanda Glazer and Olivia Qiu for their data analysis. And to George Levine of the LA Times. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The internal records highlighted in this podcast were obtained as part of The California Reporting project. Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR and KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky for their editorial insights. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Promotion and engagement support from César Saldaña and Maha Sanad. Graphic design by Sophie Feller. Photography by Beth LaBerge, and videography by Kori Suzuki. Thank you to our in-house lawyers, Rebecca Hopkins and Bridget Barrett, along with Sarah Burns and Thomas Burke of Davis Wright Tremaine, who helped us sue CDCR so we could get the internal tapes you heard on this podcast. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager, our Managing Editor of News and Enterprise Otis R. Taylor Jr., Ethan Tovan-Lindsey our Vice President of News, And KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And thanks to all of you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11982244/8-last-stand-s2-new-folsom","authors":["8676","6625"],"programs":["news_33521"],"categories":["news_31795","news_6188","news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_18538","news_17725","news_29466","news_1471"],"featImg":"news_11982308","label":"news_33521"},"news_11982070":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11982070","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11982070","score":null,"sort":[1712574001000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"campaign-to-roll-back-prop-47-criminal-justice-reforms-could-head-to-voters","title":"Campaign to Roll Back Proposition 47 Criminal Justice Reforms Could Head to Voters","publishDate":1712574001,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Campaign to Roll Back Proposition 47 Criminal Justice Reforms Could Head to Voters | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>A campaign by prosecutors and retailers to roll back parts of Proposition 47, California’s landmark 2014 criminal justice reform, could soon move forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Backers say they believe they have enough signatures to qualify for the November ballot. The deadline for the group to submit the 546,651 signatures needed is April 23.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, lawmakers in Sacramento are pushing forward on legislation that Gov. Gavin Newsom and Democratic leaders say \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979533/i-dont-want-to-go-back-to-the-ballot-assembly-speaker-rivas-opposes-changes-to-proposition-47\">would solve the problems critics see with Proposition 47\u003c/a>, without a need to go back to voters. On Tuesday, Assembly Speaker Robert Rivas plans to introduce what he’s calling a “comprehensive, bipartisan legislative package,” to attack retail theft.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Proposition 47 reduced charges for personal drug possession and for theft of anything worth less than $950 from a felony to a misdemeanor. It also required that the money the state saved from keeping people out of prison and jail, about $800 million so far, be invested in rehabilitation programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But critics blame Proposition 47 for a host of issues, from an increase in drug use and homelessness to what they say is a spike in shoplifting and retail theft, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11975661/data-shows-no-huge-spike-in-shoplifting-since-passage-of-prop-47\">even though state data doesn’t fully support that claim\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11975692/prop-47s-impact-on-californias-criminal-justice-system\">A KQED investigation\u003c/a> found no major increase in reported shoplifting or overall theft since the measure passed, though the crimes appear to be underreported — but the investigation did find a large drop in arrest rates for theft over the past decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11975692 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/GettyImages-1363480595-1020x680.jpg']The proposed measure wouldn’t entirely repeal Proposition 47, but it would gut some of its key provisions, which were aimed at keeping lower level criminals and drug users out of jail and prison. The proposal would make it easier to charge repeat offenders with a felony and increase penalties for organized retail theft rings. It would also stiffen penalties for selling fentanyl and other “hard drugs” such as heroin, methamphetamines and cocaine. And it would mandate as much as a year in jail for possessing those same drugs — though the ballot measure also gives judges the option of diverting those accused of possession into drug treatment programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Backers have raised more than $7 million, mostly from large retailers like Walmart, which has donated $2.5 million, and Home Depot, which cut a $1 million check last month. And many prosecutors in California, who have long been critical of Proposition 47, helped write and are backing the ballot measure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campaign spokesperson Becky Warren said the measure has received “overwhelming” support from people across the political spectrum as they gather signatures.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This bipartisan ballot measure is a commonsense approach that prioritizes improving community safety while balancing accountability for repeat retail theft offenders and drug traffickers, with meaningful treatment and rehabilitation for serious addicts who need support,” she said in a written statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But supporters of the original criminal justice reforms in Proposition 47 are pushing back. They’ve joined with progressive lawmakers to roll out \u003ca href=\"https://ellabakercenter.org/smartsolutionsca/\">a package of legislation\u003c/a> they say would help curb retail theft and address the fentanyl crisis, without altering Proposition 47. Among the proposals: legislation aimed at making it harder for people to sell stolen goods online, bills to increase diversion programs for people accused of theft, and measures to increase drug treatment opportunities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tinisch Hollins is executive director of Californians for Safety and Justice, the group that sponsored Proposition 47. She said the provisions in the potential November ballot measure have already been proven to fail — and that’s why voters embraced reform in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve tried tough on crime, right? … We have decades of proof that that doesn’t work,” she said. “The issue of organized retail theft is much too nuanced to just throw a blanket repeal for a proposition — not to mention the cost to the state and our communities if we go back to just criminalizing everyone and putting them in jail and prison for low-level offenses. It’s just the wrong approach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hollins said her group broadly supports efforts in the Legislature to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/retail-theft-california-crime-bill/\">tackle organized retail theft\u003c/a> and she added that laws to hold fentanyl dealers and thieves accountable already exist. She said it’s up to law enforcement to use the tools they already have, noting there’s been a huge decrease in arrest rates for theft over the past decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/ballot/2023/230474.pdf\">An assessment by the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst Office (PDF)\u003c/a> found that the proposed ballot measure would result in California spending hundreds of millions of dollars more each year to incarcerate people in prison. The report said it would also cost counties tens of millions of dollars annually in jail, probation and court spending. Hollins questioned, with increased costs and the existing shortage of drug treatment programs, whether there would even be treatment available for people eligible for diversion under the proposed measure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The ballot initiative doesn’t increase funding. In fact, if [Proposition] 47 is repealed, then we have hundreds of millions of dollars going back to the system instead of for these types of intervention,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Proposition 47 supporters also recently filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission alleging that Congressman Kevin Kiley, an outspoken critic of Proposition 47, has illegally coordinated with the campaign committee collecting signatures — an allegation both Kiley and representatives for the ballot measure deny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The complaint was filed by attorney Ann Ravel, a former FEC chair, who said she got involved at the request of Californians for Safety and Justice, but that she is not being paid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24534243/21march2024kileycomplaint.pdf\">In her complaint (PDF)\u003c/a>, Ravel accuses Kiley of establishing and controlling the campaign committee that is backing the effort to overhaul Proposition 47, and alleges that control is illegal because the six- and seven-figure donations collected by that committee exceed the federal limits Kiley’s congressional campaign is subject to. \u003ca href=\"https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/contribution-limits/\">Under federal law\u003c/a>, a candidate may only solicit up to $3,300 per election from an individual donor and up to $5,000 a year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Tinisch Hollins, executive director, Californians for Safety and Justice\"]‘We’ve tried tough on crime, right? … We have decades of proof that that doesn’t work.’[/pullquote]“He has raised an enormous amount of money that is a violation of campaign finance law,” Ravel said. “We are just asking them to investigate the violations.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ravel \u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24534244/ann-ravel-letter.pdf\">cites (PDF)\u003c/a> as proof Kiley’s long standing criticism of Proposition 47 and his involvement with the campaign, including email blasts and a website linked to his congressional campaign that asks people to sign the ballot measure petition. In one email, Ravel states, “he solicits funds for the ballot measure, to be made by check to ‘Kevin Kiley for Congress’ indicating that he has solicited earmarked contributions for the measure, using his committee as a conduit.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for Kiley called the allegations “frivolous and full of falsehoods,” adding that Kiley has “no official or unofficial position or control over the ballot measure committee,” and found out about its existence months after it was created.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Ms. Ravel has a history of filing these types of political complaints that go nowhere,” Kiley’s political consultant Dave Gilliard said in an email. “[Kiley] has not solicited donations to the ballot measure committee from anyone and has not spoken about the initiative with any of the donors named in the complaint.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gilliard added that Kiley asked for donations to his congressional campaign to defray the cost of mailing petitions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are reporting the amounts spent on such mailings as an in-kind contribution to the committee, as required by law. The total value of that in-kind will probably end up being about 1% of the money raised by the committee,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Proposition 47 supporters and Democratic lawmakers are countering with a package of legislation aimed at addressing retail theft and the fentanyl crisis.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1712610596,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":26,"wordCount":1358},"headData":{"title":"Campaign to Roll Back Proposition 47 Criminal Justice Reforms Could Head to Voters | KQED","description":"Proposition 47 supporters and Democratic lawmakers are countering with a package of legislation aimed at addressing retail theft and the fentanyl crisis.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Campaign to Roll Back Proposition 47 Criminal Justice Reforms Could Head to Voters","datePublished":"2024-04-08T11:00:01.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-08T21:09:56.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/0af137ef-751e-4b19-a055-aaef00d2d578/ffca7e9f-6831-4[…]f-aaef00f5a073/27958eb5-a158-40ef-8b8f-b14c010508ae/audio.mp3","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11982070/campaign-to-roll-back-prop-47-criminal-justice-reforms-could-head-to-voters","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>A campaign by prosecutors and retailers to roll back parts of Proposition 47, California’s landmark 2014 criminal justice reform, could soon move forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Backers say they believe they have enough signatures to qualify for the November ballot. The deadline for the group to submit the 546,651 signatures needed is April 23.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, lawmakers in Sacramento are pushing forward on legislation that Gov. Gavin Newsom and Democratic leaders say \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979533/i-dont-want-to-go-back-to-the-ballot-assembly-speaker-rivas-opposes-changes-to-proposition-47\">would solve the problems critics see with Proposition 47\u003c/a>, without a need to go back to voters. On Tuesday, Assembly Speaker Robert Rivas plans to introduce what he’s calling a “comprehensive, bipartisan legislative package,” to attack retail theft.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Proposition 47 reduced charges for personal drug possession and for theft of anything worth less than $950 from a felony to a misdemeanor. It also required that the money the state saved from keeping people out of prison and jail, about $800 million so far, be invested in rehabilitation programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But critics blame Proposition 47 for a host of issues, from an increase in drug use and homelessness to what they say is a spike in shoplifting and retail theft, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11975661/data-shows-no-huge-spike-in-shoplifting-since-passage-of-prop-47\">even though state data doesn’t fully support that claim\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11975692/prop-47s-impact-on-californias-criminal-justice-system\">A KQED investigation\u003c/a> found no major increase in reported shoplifting or overall theft since the measure passed, though the crimes appear to be underreported — but the investigation did find a large drop in arrest rates for theft over the past decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11975692","hero":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/GettyImages-1363480595-1020x680.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The proposed measure wouldn’t entirely repeal Proposition 47, but it would gut some of its key provisions, which were aimed at keeping lower level criminals and drug users out of jail and prison. The proposal would make it easier to charge repeat offenders with a felony and increase penalties for organized retail theft rings. It would also stiffen penalties for selling fentanyl and other “hard drugs” such as heroin, methamphetamines and cocaine. And it would mandate as much as a year in jail for possessing those same drugs — though the ballot measure also gives judges the option of diverting those accused of possession into drug treatment programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Backers have raised more than $7 million, mostly from large retailers like Walmart, which has donated $2.5 million, and Home Depot, which cut a $1 million check last month. And many prosecutors in California, who have long been critical of Proposition 47, helped write and are backing the ballot measure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campaign spokesperson Becky Warren said the measure has received “overwhelming” support from people across the political spectrum as they gather signatures.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This bipartisan ballot measure is a commonsense approach that prioritizes improving community safety while balancing accountability for repeat retail theft offenders and drug traffickers, with meaningful treatment and rehabilitation for serious addicts who need support,” she said in a written statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But supporters of the original criminal justice reforms in Proposition 47 are pushing back. They’ve joined with progressive lawmakers to roll out \u003ca href=\"https://ellabakercenter.org/smartsolutionsca/\">a package of legislation\u003c/a> they say would help curb retail theft and address the fentanyl crisis, without altering Proposition 47. Among the proposals: legislation aimed at making it harder for people to sell stolen goods online, bills to increase diversion programs for people accused of theft, and measures to increase drug treatment opportunities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tinisch Hollins is executive director of Californians for Safety and Justice, the group that sponsored Proposition 47. She said the provisions in the potential November ballot measure have already been proven to fail — and that’s why voters embraced reform in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve tried tough on crime, right? … We have decades of proof that that doesn’t work,” she said. “The issue of organized retail theft is much too nuanced to just throw a blanket repeal for a proposition — not to mention the cost to the state and our communities if we go back to just criminalizing everyone and putting them in jail and prison for low-level offenses. It’s just the wrong approach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hollins said her group broadly supports efforts in the Legislature to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/retail-theft-california-crime-bill/\">tackle organized retail theft\u003c/a> and she added that laws to hold fentanyl dealers and thieves accountable already exist. She said it’s up to law enforcement to use the tools they already have, noting there’s been a huge decrease in arrest rates for theft over the past decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/ballot/2023/230474.pdf\">An assessment by the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst Office (PDF)\u003c/a> found that the proposed ballot measure would result in California spending hundreds of millions of dollars more each year to incarcerate people in prison. The report said it would also cost counties tens of millions of dollars annually in jail, probation and court spending. Hollins questioned, with increased costs and the existing shortage of drug treatment programs, whether there would even be treatment available for people eligible for diversion under the proposed measure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The ballot initiative doesn’t increase funding. In fact, if [Proposition] 47 is repealed, then we have hundreds of millions of dollars going back to the system instead of for these types of intervention,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Proposition 47 supporters also recently filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission alleging that Congressman Kevin Kiley, an outspoken critic of Proposition 47, has illegally coordinated with the campaign committee collecting signatures — an allegation both Kiley and representatives for the ballot measure deny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The complaint was filed by attorney Ann Ravel, a former FEC chair, who said she got involved at the request of Californians for Safety and Justice, but that she is not being paid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24534243/21march2024kileycomplaint.pdf\">In her complaint (PDF)\u003c/a>, Ravel accuses Kiley of establishing and controlling the campaign committee that is backing the effort to overhaul Proposition 47, and alleges that control is illegal because the six- and seven-figure donations collected by that committee exceed the federal limits Kiley’s congressional campaign is subject to. \u003ca href=\"https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/contribution-limits/\">Under federal law\u003c/a>, a candidate may only solicit up to $3,300 per election from an individual donor and up to $5,000 a year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘We’ve tried tough on crime, right? … We have decades of proof that that doesn’t work.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Tinisch Hollins, executive director, Californians for Safety and Justice","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“He has raised an enormous amount of money that is a violation of campaign finance law,” Ravel said. “We are just asking them to investigate the violations.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ravel \u003ca href=\"https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24534244/ann-ravel-letter.pdf\">cites (PDF)\u003c/a> as proof Kiley’s long standing criticism of Proposition 47 and his involvement with the campaign, including email blasts and a website linked to his congressional campaign that asks people to sign the ballot measure petition. In one email, Ravel states, “he solicits funds for the ballot measure, to be made by check to ‘Kevin Kiley for Congress’ indicating that he has solicited earmarked contributions for the measure, using his committee as a conduit.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for Kiley called the allegations “frivolous and full of falsehoods,” adding that Kiley has “no official or unofficial position or control over the ballot measure committee,” and found out about its existence months after it was created.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Ms. Ravel has a history of filing these types of political complaints that go nowhere,” Kiley’s political consultant Dave Gilliard said in an email. “[Kiley] has not solicited donations to the ballot measure committee from anyone and has not spoken about the initiative with any of the donors named in the complaint.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gilliard added that Kiley asked for donations to his congressional campaign to defray the cost of mailing petitions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are reporting the amounts spent on such mailings as an in-kind contribution to the committee, as required by law. The total value of that in-kind will probably end up being about 1% of the money raised by the committee,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11982070/campaign-to-roll-back-prop-47-criminal-justice-reforms-could-head-to-voters","authors":["3239"],"categories":["news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_17725","news_27626","news_27947","news_17968","news_18502","news_30045"],"featImg":"news_11961454","label":"news"},"news_11981573":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11981573","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11981573","score":null,"sort":[1712052040000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"7-we-dont-do-coincidences-s2-new-folsom","title":"7. “We Don’t Do Coincidence” | S2: New Folsom","publishDate":1712052040,"format":"audio","headTitle":"7. “We Don’t Do Coincidence” | S2: New Folsom | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33521,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We get to listen in on confidential interviews conducted by Sgt. Kevin Steele before his death. Plus, we finally get to see surveillance footage from inside the B8 unit that sheds new light on the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s note: After this episode first aired on April 2, 2024, CDCR finally located Valentino Rodriguez’s supplemental report about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar that we reference in this episode. Their public records team was initially unable to find it. However, the agency said the report was exempt from disclosure.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5469603434\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes descriptions of violence and references a homicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, is it powered on? Can you hear it going? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s the day after Julie and I met with our confidential source, and we’re back in the office with our editor, Victoria. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not, it’s not reading it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re absolutely reeling from what we’ve been given: memos, internal prison emails, and these video CDs that have Sergeant Kevin Steele’s own handwriting on them. It’s key evidence that Steele had saved, according to our source, both to protect himself and because he’d become so concerned that his own law enforcement agency might try to destroy it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But wait, did you put a disc in it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Try putting a disc in it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tried. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wouldn’t do anything? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it was just dead. Right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But at first, the most important videos won’t play. It turns out to watch the practice run and the homicide, we need some special software. So, Julie, Victoria and I huddle in front of Julie’s computer and we try another disc: the one labeled “Taylor.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. So let’s try-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is reading it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s try Taylor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Wait, hold on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh Lord. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we find out that Cody Taylor, the guy who was so afraid of having this interview come out, is the one who started almost everything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. This is Sergeant Steele in the room. It is now about almost 8:30 on Friday, July the third. I’m also in the room with inmate Taylor. Is that your name?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The video opens with a familiar scene: Steele holding up his black military watch to the camera to record the time. At this point, it’s been almost seven months since the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. Taylor has already pled guilty to the murder and taken his 102 year sentence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I came in here, I told you what we were gonna talk about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let me itemize that. We’re gonna talk about a letter that you sent. We’re gonna talk about some things that you know, and we’re also gonna talk about some things that you’ve noticed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, correct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, and also you asked me before I started recording, you said, “Hey, I wanna tell you the real reason why I’m here.” Did you not say that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele reads Taylor his rights as he sits in a cage about the size of a phone booth. He’s a white guy wearing a sleeveless undershirt. You can see a large tattoo of a woman’s face in the center of his upper chest, and another tattoo that’s harder to make out snaking down the left side of his face. Steele holds up a handwritten document to the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And my signature.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s undated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele has been asked by his boss, a lieutenant in the ISU, to find out more about this letter — this letter that Cody Taylor sent to the warden of New Folsom Prison, making some pretty big allegations. Allegations that up until now, Taylor says he’s kept quiet about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…speculations. I just never, you know, I’ve never admitted it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just used the word “admitted it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that you’ve always known that there are things that are unknown-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unknown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or in the shadows. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, of course. Of course. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so what you’re saying is, you know that you have direct information to validate those- that speculation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have direct information. If, if the video evidence is still there, that’s more than enough on both occasions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, we go back inside the day room one final time. To look at what this video evidence shows about the claims of each of the murderers. To find out how Steele had looked at this case, and if his obsession had gone too far. And to ask who should answer for the death of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Musical break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get further into this evidence, I just wanted to let you know that KQED agreed to pay some costs so the confidential source could bring us these materials. It’s not something we usually do, but in this case, we decided it was appropriate. We needed to safeguard the evidence, protect our source, and finish our investigation in time. Now let’s get back to Steele’s interview with Cody Taylor about the letter he sent, which was addressed to Warden Jeff Lynch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or do you need to look at it again to review it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, I, I, I pretty much know what it’s about. Um, would you like me to summarize it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele he sent this letter because he’s fed up with how he’s been treated since the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cell search daily, which isn’t policy. Um, you know, the little bit of property I do have, you know, um, destroyed on a daily basis. Uh, personal, uh, hygiene and, and food items spread out sometimes — it’s happened twice. Um, shoe prints on my bed, the list goes on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he thinks it’s retaliation — that the murder made the prison look bad. And he says there’s been a lot of speculation about officers lending them a helping hand, which he is now ready to talk about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll be willing to take a lie detector test. Um, ’cause everything that I’m saying and have said in that letter is 1000% honest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor explains, going back to the assault on Michael Britt two months before the murder, they had an understanding with the officers in the unit. Britt, if you remember, was Dion Green’s enemy, who he’d already tried to kill at a different prison once before. Yet prison officials put Britt and Green in the same housing section and let them all have day room together \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While walking out, the sergeant and the lieutenant said, “Hey man, you’re on your own, cuz. Have fun with these guys.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They said that to Britt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Said that to Britt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by them saying that, are you, is your inference that they knew what was about to happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, because the sergeant asked me if this could not happen today because he’s trying to go home. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant said, could this not happen today because he’s going home?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I said, it’s only business, big dog.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says the officers let them carry on with their business: attacking Michael Britt. Just a side note, we didn’t get a video of the Britt incident, so it’s the one that’s the hardest to analyze, but we were leaked some still images that show Taylor and Rodriguez stabbing Britt as Green looks on from a nearby chair. A still image taken a minute and a half later shows the two attackers standing in the middle of the day room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reports say the control booth officer shot those foam batons, but he didn’t use lethal force. Then about eight weeks after they tried to kill Britt, there was the practice run. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We tested everything out a week prior. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele how he was in the day room, got out of his cuffs, slipped the black boxes, ran up the stairs, got the knives from Dion Green’s cell, and came back down. All of which the tower officer saw, but didn’t do anything about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So how do you know that they knew that you had weapons? How would you know that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, not necessarily weapons, but he asked me what I went up there and grabbed. When he opened up the thing, he’s like, “Why’d you do that? Why’d you go up there and grab it?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’d you tell him? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said, “Man, just relax. It’s all good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He goes-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Initially, Taylor says the plan was to murder Aguilar that day — the day of the practice run. They knew he’d have to walk through the day room on his way back from a morning group, but ultimately he and Anthony Rodriguez decided to wait until a later day — a day when they could get him in the day room alone, not under an officer escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, just outta respect for the staff because they were, you know, looking out for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele asks Taylor about one of those ways that staff was supposedly looking out for them, that Taylor talked about in his letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You said, and I I’m gonna quote you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It says, “Keys were given to us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keys were given to you by who?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Real keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real cuff. Cuff keys.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real long cuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not homemade, not manufacturer keys. They’re the real deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Broken off handcuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele later interviewed a different man who’d been in the B8 unit. This guy told him that, “Everyone knew the cops were working with those guys, they could run around without getting shot.” And he told Steele that cops had given Green a real cuff key and that it was being used to make copies. In the video with Steele, Taylor says, the day of the murder where they went after Luis Giovanny Aguilar, staff once again, knew what was gonna happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m not exaggerating when I tell you this. Not only all staff knew, but cer- I believe certain staff left the buildings ’cause they didn’t want to be involved, I believe. Because they were transferring to another institution and they were like, “Hey man, we’re I’m this, this my up my transfer. I’m not trying to be involved.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when you say transfer, ’cause they’re trying to transfer to Mule Creek?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mule Creek Prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You had told me that just right before this today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right before. And he goes, “I’m not gonna be involved because,” um… Or no, “I couldn’t be involved in the fun because I’m trying to get a transfer.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is one of those details in Taylor’s story that to me has the granularity and messiness of truth. It’s such an odd thing to make up, and it’s something that Steele was later able to confirm. Two officers in the unit had transferred to Mule Creek State Prison shortly after. Steele continues going over the letter and Taylor explains how they’d also made this agreement with officers not to double lock their cuffs so that they could get out of the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele to go back and look at the video of the murder. While he says he hasn’t seen it himself, he thinks a moment was caught on tape that will prove his point. As they were going through the security protocol at his cell door, the officer who was cuffing him made a mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m coming outta my door and he accidentally double locks my right foot. That being said, my left lock is p- is still not double locked. Um, but my right one is. I look, I look to the right and I tell him, “Hey, you fucked up. That shit is double locked.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor claims the officer kneeled down outside his door and undid the double lock on his right ankle cuff. But Taylor says the day of the murder, they did have one new factor to worry about. They didn’t know the guy in the control booth or tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve already had these conversations with the previous tower with Britt. Everything was good. He wasn’t gonna kill us. Right? But there was a new cop in there. So I made sure I said, look man, you know, we’re half-ass doing you guys a favor. You know, this guy assaulted you and shit. You know, we have our own- word for word. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have our own reasons too, but can you make sure, uh, your tower doesn’t kill us? He goes, um, I don’t really know him, but I’m gonna talk to him right now. You should be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor had told me a lot of the same things that he told Steele. Some of these details I didn’t include in the last episode because I couldn’t verify them. Like the officers trying to transfer, or the supposed footage of an officer kneeling down at his door. But now that we had these memos and videos, these were things we could check. Near the end of the tape, Steele brings the conversation back to Taylor’s motivation for sending his letter to the warden. What does he hope to get out of this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The real reason, the impetus, the reason that you wrote this is, again, about your housing placement, the treatment, and the fact that you, your, your real longing is to go to Salinas Valley unencumbered with anything from here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just want to move on. I just, you know, I feel that I took one on the chin. You know, I-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This appears to be what he’s proposing. He’ll continue to keep quiet about officers’ involvement in the murder in exchange for suspending his solitary confinement, or SHU term, and transferring him to Salinas Valley State Prison where he says he’ll be safer with members of his own gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to move all this behind me-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… and start over right there. Um, but I feel that I shouldn’t remain in the SHU, be treated as I’m being treated. And, and after, you know what? Initially, hey, I, I didn’t say shit, man. I didn’t say shit to nobody. And, and I’m, if anything, I should be treated like a king for me remaining silent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he doesn’t want anything, money or anything else, and he says he’ll even sign a non-disclosure agreement if that would help. Because his point is not to get staff in trouble. If he wanted to do that, he’d have gone about this in a totally different way. He’d have filed a formal complaint, told his family who worked in law enforcement or called the press. But he wanted to see if he could work this out directly with the warden. So he sent that letter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My co-defendants don’t even know about that letter. Nobody knows about that letter besides me. My co-defendants- I don’t speak to Mr. Green no more, but Rodriguez doesn’t even know about that letter. Nobody-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now Taylor says he’s at a boiling point.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you fools didn’t even do an investigat- Excuse me, I don’t know that, but I’m just assuming you guys didn’t even do an investigation into your officers. They might have been redirected, but I’m sure nobody’s gotten fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, that’s, that’s a, that’s a coverup in itself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor is right about one thing, at the time of this interview. From what we can see, Internal Affairs hasn’t started investigating this incident and no one has been fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who do you want to see this video? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I’m gonna go ahead and conclude. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not totally clear to me what to make of Taylor’s motives here. Okay, so he’s not trying to get out of criminal charges, but does he really believe he’s going to strike a deal with the warden? And if so, why turn to Kevin Steele — a rule follower — to be his blackmail delivery guy? On the other hand, if he’s just lying to stir up shit for officers, what does he hope to get out of it? An investigation that’s only gonna bring a whole bunch more scrutiny and danger down on him? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I have another question about this interview from the prison’s side of things. Why was Steele the one assigned to do it in the first place? There were clearly already rumors going around about this murder among witnesses in the unit. A different letter alleging it was a setup had already been mailed to the District Attorney’s office within weeks of the murder. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if you’re the warden, why assign this to someone in-house? For simple optics reasons, it seems like getting headquarters to review would be the cleanest course of action. CDCR says they cannot comment on this case, and that it’s part of an ongoing investigation involving outside law enforcement. But whatever the warden thought he was doing by sending Steele in to do this interview, and whatever Taylor thought he was doing walking into this interview, those choices start a chain reaction that likely neither prison officials nor Cody Taylor wanted. An investigation that winds up in the lap of the FBI and a lawsuit brought against prison officials by the mother of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What happens next in the chain reaction set off by Taylor’s letter is that Steele wants to find corroboration. After that first interview with Taylor, in emails to his bosses, including the warden, Steele shares what he’s uncovering. He sounds activated and eager to move on Taylor’s claims. He says he’s already talked to Green about some of these issues with the murder, and he asks permission to try and talk to Anthony Rodriguez, the third murder suspect who took part in the stabbing with Taylor. It doesn’t appear that Anthony Rodriguez ever agreed to that, but someone else did agree to go on tape with Steele. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead and introduce yourself please.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Green J22161. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this video, Dion Green is now the one in the cage and Steele starts off the same as he did with Taylor by noting the time and date. It’s July 17th, 2020, and reading him his rights. This is Steele’s first recorded interview with Green, but he acknowledges that they have talked about the murder before while handling stuff for court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And in a roundabout way, you told me that it would’ve never happened had staff not participated in that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we listened in on this interview, hoping to understand this next phase of Steele’s investigation, and what Green had said to Steele that had convinced him that officers had a hand in the murder, we realized that many of those conversations had already happened off camera, and this set up a very odd dynamic in this interview. For example, Steele brings out a pair of handcuffs to get Green to demonstrate the double locking mechanism, but it’s clear this is a replay for the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I brought these very same cuffs down last week and I asked you a simple question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you remember that question? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked you whether I can get these cuffs open if they’re double locked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele double locks the cuffs and hands Green, a flat metal shim. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you get those open with that shim? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I already know that I can’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In case you missed that, he says, “I already know that I can’t.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green is very soft spoken throughout this interview. He says he sometimes hesitates because he has Parkinson’s and because going on the record is dangerous. Steele, meanwhile, is a man in constant motion. A man now animated by this mission to find the truth about this murder. And what these two very different styles lead to are these exchanges where Green hesitates, and instead of waiting for him to respond, Steele jumps in — helping him and clearly leading him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would think that you guys making the weapons and cutting the- the desks, it would seem to me that that would require a lot of effort on your part. It would make a lot of noise. And possibly it would require some extra stuff that maybe you don’t have access to. What do you think on that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, of course, I mean-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele brings up the noise of making the weapons and Green picks up on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have to be able to hear that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The scraping, you mean the grinding or-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Verbal scraping noise] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">you know, the, you know, you’ve seen the weapons that was used. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the way I ran this by an officer who said that on its own, this isn’t a credible piece of evidence. A lot of these units are really loud and the sound of making the weapons could easily be missed by officers. But Steele doesn’t push back or point out how noisy the unit is. It seems like he just accepts what Green’s saying and moves on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Was there any, any um, extra things that were provided to enable you to cut the, the Steele from the desk? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, only way when we can get or use… they provided, and that was the clipper heads and stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re talking about the tool used to make the knives the head of a hair clipper. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say they, who are you talking about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staff brought you clipper heads? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To your cell? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, it’s like Steele already knows the answers he’s looking for. Clearly they have talked about this before. Now that’s likely part of why Steele is asking these questions like this: to prompt a reluctant witness to share things he’s said before, but now to do it for the record. But the end result is that there are these huge moments where it feels like Steele is testifying himself rather than eliciting answers from Green. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I’m understanding you, you’re saying if it can happen to Aguilar, it can happen to you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Of course. Absolutely. Absolutely. At any time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taken a step further, you’re saying that staff could facilitate you being in the wrong place at the wrong time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely. Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we watched this recording, I was also listening for things that Green had told me, which you heard about last episode. But Green does not mention Aguilar being a child molester or that the killing was ordered by the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit, Eric Baker. He doesn’t say anything about the drugs he told me that an officer brought to his cell to give to Taylor and Rodriguez’s payment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The story that Green tells Steele first is actually the closest to how Taylor and Rodriguez have described the incident. Not a hit ordered by the officers, but an assault that they facilitated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We could not have killed this man. He would be alive today if it wasn’t for the, the assistance and the help of your staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He tells Steele that officers agreed to make Aguilar — who was associated with an enemy gang, who was known to be disrespectful and assault staff — available to them in the ways we’ve talked about before. There’d be no kill shot and no double locking the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think there’s a possibility that the officer made a mistake twice when he, when he didn’t double lock those cuffs?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not no damn mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not a mistake. Not twice in a row? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not. You, you are a professional.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your job-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you don’t think it’s a mistake or an oversight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With, with with, with us… the caliber of men that we are… I go back to this: the caliber men- of who I am and my two brothers, and the hits that we have put down…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are the number one security threat in B8. We are. So to not secure us… to not secure us?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… is a problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, Steele asks Green if there’s anything he’d like to say to the people who this video is for: the warden and the chief deputy warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What would you wanna say to them? If anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green rocks forward in his seat slightly. There’s a little open slot in the side of the cage that he peers through to look into the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, um, I’m asking for my safety. My livelihood is, you know, I’m asking for, you know, to be placed nowhere in the state of California. Nowhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this interview, Steele and Green will record at least three more interviews. Unfortunately, we don’t have all those recordings, but we do know that Steele came to believe much of Green’s story. And I think part of that is because he began to feel responsible for him. At the very, very beginning of this first video, Steele starts the tape rolling while Green is in the middle of saying something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just want me just to take your word? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do. I know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele puts his word on the line to convince Green to put his life on the line. And even if Green’s motives aren’t pure, that danger is real. In the months to come, confidential information about Green’s testimony and Taylor’s letter is leaked out to officers and word spreads that he talked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That I’m a whistleblower rat for ex- exposing this ongoing corruption of staff and that I need to be taken out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a clip from one of those later interviews that we did get. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say calling you a whistleblower, when, what does that term mean to you? Whistleblower?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, whistleblower to me means- okay in terms of, you know, uh, Snowden, you know Snowden?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Edward Snowden who leaked secrets about the NSA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it can take on a bad connotation sometimes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it is again, a government program intended to expose corruption. That’s what it’s designed for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says he’s being called this for a different reason.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The purpose is only one purpose. That purpose is to get me hurt very badly. To get me killed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming across this exchange was such a meta moment for me. These two men discussing the meaning of the term “whistleblower,” the term that came to define Sergeant Kevin Steele, but did not protect him. And the term that has marked Dion Green as well. While it’s possible that Steele got too close to Green to see him clearly, Green’s testimony is not the only evidence Steele had to go on. Now it is not the only evidence that we have to go on either. We finally did figure out how to play the surveillance videos of Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s murder and the practice run, and we found an expert to help us decode them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanted to start by having Julie show you the video of what has been called the Practice Run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A couple weeks after we got these videos and memos about the Aguilar homicide, we met up with another confidential source. I was on Zoom and Julie was in the studio. This man is a retired sergeant who knows a lot about internal affairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is just- Yeah, the practice run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there’s no sound. You know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He watches it play. The video leaked to us is pretty short. Four minutes and 22 seconds. When it starts, Taylor and Rodriguez are already sitting at the individual desks in the day room. Rodriguez is on the left and Taylor is on the right. You don’t see how Taylor escapes his restraints because when the video starts, he’s clearly already gotten out of the handcuffs, which are supposed to be attached to a chain around his waist, and the ankle shackles that are supposed to be fixing him to the chair. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor sweeps his right leg out to shake off the ankle chain and then runs around the desk and up the stairs leading to Green’s cell. He kind of trips at the top of the stairs, recovers, and then grabs something — the knives — from under the door. He tucks them into the open front of his white prison jumpsuit. As he runs back down the stairs, he adjusts the knives in his waistband and then sits back down in his chair. Anthony Rodriguez gives him a big smile and kind of bounces up and down in his seat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor starts putting his restraints back on. The first time watching it through, the sergeant is pretty unconvinced that staff would’ve necessarily noticed the action in the unit. Just a note, this sergeant didn’t want us to use his voice. So the voice you’re gonna hear is actually one of our colleagues repeating exactly what the confidential source said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you watch the inmates, one of them is clearly the lookout. So if staff are involved, why is he so intent on identifying whether or not staff are in the picture, whether or not staff are coming?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says if the control booth officer was paying attention the way they were supposed to, these guys shouldn’t have been able to do this. But he said that complicity is not the only explanation for the security failure. It could also be laziness or incompetence, but he wants to see it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This time we ask him to check out these two moments that happen at the very edge of what the camera captures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are the moments where you can see staff interacting with Taylor and Rodriguez. Taylor has just sat back down in his chair and he’s starting to get his restraints back on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then there’s somebody that comes to the window of the rotunda, which you can also see in the video. Let’s see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie plays the first clip where an officer appears at the window of the rotunda. That’s the central area outside the housing section. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what it looks like to me, if I wanna be skeptical, it looks like he’s- so, he’s got his hands on the window and then he goes like \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">this\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is like cuffs, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie zooms in so the sergeant can see the officer in the rotunda who looks like he’s holding up two fists next to each other, kind of pantomiming the gesture for cuffs. And Rodriguez holds up his hands showing, yeah, he’s still in restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah. He is like, “Look, yeah, I’m good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmhmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer disappears from the window. So maybe he had a question about whether they were in their cuffs or not, but he’s satisfied by what he sees. Then almost as soon as he disappears, another officer steps into view in the control booth. The sergeant starts manipulating the video himself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just zoomed in on the tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He pushes play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh shit, he’s giving hand signals. Do you see his hands? He’s giving hand signals. That’s weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer in the control booth is clearly doing something with his hands. It could be that this guy just talks with his hands a lot. But the sergeant says what’s giving him pause is that hand signals are a common way for incarcerated people to talk to each other on the yard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The problem I have is that there’s clearly a control booth cop up there, somebody up there. And what I really don’t like is how he’s communicating with the inmates. There’s something very familiar about what he’s doing with those inmates. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At the tail end of this back and forth, as the control booth officer disappears from view, Taylor adjusts the front of his jumpsuit and then he draws the waist chain of the shackles back over his head. Then he pulls the objects out of his waistband, bends over and slips them in his left sock. In all it takes three and a half minutes for him to put his ankle shackles and his handcuffs back on. The sergeant rewinds the video and watches it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s running up the stairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no way he should have been up the stairs. There’s no way he should have been able to do what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says this video is not the full picture. He wishes he could see what happened in the minutes before it starts and in the minutes after. But he says, bottom line, the video is proof officers did not do what they were supposed to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What should have happened? There should have been a button press. There should have been alarm, there should have been people coming in. They should have been extracted from there. There should be, there’s all kinds of things that should have happened. So do I think he saw the dude was unshackled? A hundred percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This matches Taylor’s version of events: that an officer saw he’d gotten something from Green’s cell, asked him what he was doing, and Taylor told him not to worry about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And here’s what stands out to me. If officers had gone in and checked if they’d found the weapons concealed on Taylor’s body and confiscated them, Taylor and Rodriguez would not have had those knives a week later and so may not have been able to go forward with the attack at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yeah, it’s pretty ugly. It’s supposed to be the most secured housing unit in the entire state of California. This is terrible. This is such a disgrace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should I do one camera angle at a time or is it better to do it this way?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So do the one, the left hand view where you can see Taylor coming out of his cell first.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next we showed the sergeant the video of the murder itself. When it starts, Luis Giovanny Aguilar is already in the day room. This is something that Taylor, Green and Rodriguez all say was prearranged with officers. A group of three officers approach Taylor cell on the second tier of the housing unit. The officers wave at the control booth to open the cell door and you can see Taylor from behind. He’s in a white prison jumpsuit kneeling with his back to the doorway. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should we zoom in? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, if you can. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An officer named Demond Sykes gets down to secure Taylor’s ankle shackles. Sykes reaches for something in his belt and the sergeant explains that’s him going for his keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the only reason he’d be pulling his cuff key is to use the end of the cuff key as the double lock.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The cuffs automatically single lock when you ratchet them closed. To engage the double lock, you have to do one more step: use the end of the cuff key to push this little pin into the side of the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, he’s just double locked him ’cause you see him go to his belt and then come back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, as they step out of the cell, Taylor turns to his right and says something to Sykes, the officer who just secured his cuffs. Then Taylor kneels down again this time outside the cell on the tier. I tell the sergeant that this is a moment that Taylor told Steele was evidence that staff were involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says this moment shows they- that accidentally Sykes double locked his right cuff and he came out of his cell and he goes to Sykes, “Are we double locking today?” Because if he’s double locked he can’t get out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Sykes gets back down on his knees and goes, “Oops, my bad.” And un-double-locks just the right hand cuffed — the left hand one was not double locked already — and then they proceed with the rest of the escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant rewinds and zooms in comparing the first time Officer Sykes locks the ankle cuffs with the second time he goes down to adjust them. The innocent explanation is that Taylor said the cuffs were too tight and Sykes loosened them. But even so, the cuffs should still have been double locked after loosening them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, it lends more credence and more credit to the fact that he was taking off the double lock. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They bring Taylor down the stairs and have him kneel on this chair that’s in the middle of the day room. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why is he on the chair? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officers are putting those black boxes on that cover the keyhole of his ankle cuffs. Then they chain him to one of the fixed day room chairs. Next they go through the whole security protocol with Anthony Rodriguez. Put the black boxes on him and chain him to a seat two desks away from Taylor. Then the officers file out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then just, yeah, like watch, watch through for- from there, like them getting out and the kind of choreography of everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Immediately Rodriguez and Taylor start messing with their restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re, they’re looking at the control booth an awful lot. Like, to me they’re looking to see if anybody’s coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It takes almost two minutes for them to get out of their restraints. But again, if someone in the control booth was paying attention, that’s quite a bit of time to miss that these guys are up to something. Then both Taylor and Rodriguez are out. The next moment looks synchronized from the motion of them placing their right hands on the desks, standing up, running up the stairs. This time, Rodriguez is the one who gets something from Green’s cell. Rodriguez comes back down. They both hit the bottom of the staircase with Taylor in front. He kind of steps toward the control booth and the door with this big grin on his face. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who’s he smiling at?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was someone at the door. They, the, the control booth officer began to open the door as he’s coming down the stairs. So Taylor kind of goes before he has a knife or anything, kind of makes that motion towards the door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a key moment that passes in a flash. But it’s important because it’s another opportunity for officers to step in before anything happens. But then, almost as quickly as it opens, the door closes again. Officers do not rush in. Rodriguez hands something to Taylor and they run over and begin stabbing Aguilar. At this point, policy requires that officers act immediately to stop a deadly threat. But they still have to decide how to act based on the situation. What the control booth officer does is fire the first of those foam or rubber projectiles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh gosh, a rubber round just came out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the sergeant if this seems late to him, he goes back in and looks at the timestamps. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So six seconds between the time the rubber round comes out and do I think that’s late? No. Here’s part of the problem. Part of the problem is that up until they get to him, they’re just out of restraints. And I can promise you that every control cop in the world is gonna sit there and second guess using any sort of force at that point. Because they’re gonna say to you, this is what the department’s gonna say to me. “Where was the threat?” And you’re gonna go, well, they were outta their handcuffs. They were running around the building. “Okay, where was the threat?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says six seconds as a response time is understandable, but what is less understandable is what happens from this point on. The sergeant says even if this officer didn’t have the mini 14 rifle — the deadly force option — slung on his body, which they’re supposed to, it would’ve been close by. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He could have very easily grabbed the mini. You can’t make that decision for him. That’s the challenge. You know, if he, I, if I had almost, you know, 20 years in the department, I’d have picked up the mini and unloaded it on those guys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But he says that’s him with his experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know what he would’ve done. And the same thing for the sergeant standing at the door and the sergeant standing at the door. I saw him making radio calls pretty much immediat- well, immediately while he was there I would’ve gone in a lot sooner than he did. But that’s me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says the officers should have gone in as soon as they had the numbers to go in — at least four officers at the door. On the video, the two men continue to rapidly and repeatedly stab Aguilar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like there’s multiple opportunities, you know, to do it. See this guy’s just stabbing him. I put a bullet in him already. I mean he’s clearly making stabbing motions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At one point they even stop stabbing him, kind of hiding behind the desks and then Taylor eggs on Rodriguez and Rodriguez goes back and continues.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then he goes back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems like Rodriguez finishes stabbing Aguilar. He stands up with his back to the control booth and Taylor steps forward and lands a last kick on Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When he gets up to kick him. Yeah, he, he gets shot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can see Taylor recoil as he gets hit by one of those foam rounds. Aguilar doesn’t appear to be moving anymore. Rodriguez throws the knife toward the door and lies down on his stomach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If they don’t have an agreement with the officer to not shoot them dead. They have reason to believe that, that at some point during this he likely could \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And should, I mean all things… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh yeah, they should be dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watching it, it feels like a long time. As second after second it moves forward to its awful conclusion. But looking at the timestamp from the moment the stabbing itself began until they stopped, it was little more than a minute. After we watch the videos, I ask the sergeant about Taylor’s testimony to Steele. To me, those details he offered are the most compelling evidence I’ve seen so far that officers knew the attack was going to happen, and I wanted to see what he made of Taylor’s motive for coming forward — the deal he was trying to strike with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only, the only person that would think they could get that is someone who’s already worked with dirty staff. That’s the only, that’s the only reason, ’cause he knows it’s gotta be strings pulled. Like, hey, like if he honestly thinks that he did what he did then, then he honestly thinks that he can get that too. So, you know, just, it just leds a whole lot of credibility to his story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor, Rodriguez and Green all say that staff knew an attack was going to happen on December 12th, 2019. I’ve spoken to additional witnesses who were incarcerated in the unit who also say that staff knew it was going to happen. The sergeant says he still has a hard time believing that officers ordered the hit. And he says they may not have even known it was gonna be deadly. But-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no doubt in my mind staff knew it was going to happen. I mean, I’ve been on the yard, okay? And I’ve had what happens is staff start to develop rapport with inmates and inmates will tell, um, the staff like, “Hey, you probably don’t wanna come to work tomorrow.” It happens all the time. All the time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in law enforcement, yeah, we, we don’t do coincidence. And certainly if there is a coincidence, it’s not a whole whole entire scenario. So the fact that you have not once, not twice, but three times, these two guys got out of their cell and were able to do the same thing with weapons is not a coincidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Tinkerbell again, the retired correctional officer who you heard from last episode. She says, at the very least, this pattern, the Britt incident, the practice run, and the homicide points to negligence on the part of officers. She says higher ups knew there were issues even running a day room in this high security unit. And there were issues with these three guys in particular.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether you have any humanity or not, we are paid to do a job. And if you don’t do their job and somebody gets killed, you should not sleep well at night. And if you say and do shit to instigate that, or further it, or fail to stop it when you knew or had prior knowledge, then shame on you. You are no better than the people that you are earning your retirement from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says she knew Steele was looking into things, talking to the suspects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was conducting an internal investigation that Internal Affairs refused to do. And when Internal Affairs had it, they covered it up or closed it out because they did not want any part of this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs did eventually look into the murder and some of the officers who were on duty that day did get disciplined, but there were some serious problems with that investigation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we’d gotten a chance to see the videos and the other evidence we were leaked. I had started trying to make contact with the officers named in the lawsuit, brought by Aguilar’s mom. The Attorney General’s office that’s representing them declined my request for an interview and referred me back to CDCR. CDCR has declined to comment on the case. But I also started emailing and calling some officers individually. I left a message for Demond Sykes, the guy who Taylor says didn’t double lock him, but he didn’t get back to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also reached out to a number of officers on Facebook, including Eric Baker, the man who was the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit in 2019 when the murder happened, and the guy who Dion Green says was behind everything. Surprisingly Baker responded by calling me up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, would you mind if I record it or does that make you uncomfortable? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He didn’t want me to record the call, but he did agree to speak to me on the record, and I recorded my side of the phone call. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have talked to other officers, other law enforcement, other investigators who say that the pattern of these three guys working together, getting outta their cuffs multiple times in the same unit in the space of a couple months, like how does that happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker asked, how do people do these kinds of things all the time in prison? Criminal, he said, is a word that comes to mind, along with time and ingenuity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. What is your take on why they weren’t disciplined when they got outta their cuffs for the practice run? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he was unaware of any practice run and that if staff had seen Rodriguez and Taylor out of their cuffs, there would have been a report. There was no report, so it couldn’t have happened the way I’d heard it did. Now, Anthony Rodriguez said Baker didn’t know anything about the murder ahead of time, but Green had told me Baker had orchestrated things. So I felt like I had to ask Baker about Green’s allegations directly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I don’t, I just doesn’t need to be like super confrontational. I just wanna get your take on it. Um, but you know, the “shot caller” Dion Green, you know, said that you were, you know, basically behind this whole thing that you participated with him and ordered him to do this. Can you speak to that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker did not directly respond to this question, and I was a bit flustered, but he kind of scoffed at the idea I was even asking it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am asking you as a person to say, did you have anything to do with it, and did you work with Dion Green to- so I just want a straightforward answer from you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker said, I should already have my answer. He says the Office of Internal Affairs did a 19 month investigation and that they didn’t find he’d done anything wrong. But again, he didn’t directly respond to the allegation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so are you, are you refusing to deny that you had anything to do with it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he couldn’t answer my question because the case was in active litigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I understand why you can’t answer. I am just also wanted to give you the opportunity to answer if you so choose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, he told me he didn’t need to clear the air, saying that him talking to me doesn’t determine the future of his career, his past or his present. And he pointed out that in the years since the murder, he’s actually been promoted. He’s a captain now. That, he said, should tell me something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During my conversation with him, Baker did bring up one concrete piece of evidence — his proof that officers had nothing to do with the murder. It’s a phone call made by Anthony Rodriguez on a recorded line to a loved one in which Rodriguez said officers weren’t a part of the murder and he wasn’t gonna get somebody fired over something that wasn’t true. Baker’s point was if staff had put him up to it, why would Rodriguez deny it in this casual call? So I asked Anthony Rodriguez about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said those words before, yes, I most definitely have said those words before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked why he’d say that. If officers really did help facilitate the murder the way he told me they did, why not say so? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t willing, willing to review all that stuff because at the time I had been there for a long time and I never had problems with these officers and I didn’t, I didn’t feel that I should, I should, uh, you know, be the reason to get them in trouble. You know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Rodriguez said the story that he told me was the truth. And that that is the same thing he said under oath when he gave his deposition and the lawsuit brought by Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario. He says he killed Aguilar over a slight on the yard. And that officers, while they didn’t order it or even know how serious the attack was going to be, did help him and Taylor carry it out. Rodriguez maintained that officers didn’t double lock the cuffs and that they agreed not to shoot them dead. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What strikes me is that regardless of which version of events you believe, there are just so many moments where this whole thing could have gone another way… and Aguilar would still be alive. If prison leaders had separated Taylor Rodriguez and Green following their attempted murder of Michael Britt. If officers had responded the day of the practice run and searched Taylor for weapons. If officers had double locked their cuffs. If officers had run through the doors before Rodriguez and Taylor got to Aguilar. If the control booth cop had fired his mini 14 to stop the attack.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in September of 2022, when I spoke to Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario over Zoom, she said something that really stuck with me. She said, it didn’t matter if officers ordered the hit or just looked the other way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hay un dicho que dice, que dice “tanto peca el que mata la vaca como el que le agarra la pata.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario says, there’s this saying in Mexico that translates to, “He who kills the cow sins as much as he who grabs its leg.” Even though the officers did not hold the knives that killed her son, she holds them responsible for his death. The bottom line for her is that this happened, on their watch, and they did nothing to stop it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo sé que no soy la única madre que tiene un hijo precio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I know I’m not the only mother that had a son in prison,” she says. “There are other mothers like me who hope to see their sons again one day only to find out that they’ve been unjustly killed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y que este memento le digamos que se lo mataron injustamente.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario’s lawsuit against prison officials is ongoing. As far as we know the FBI are still investigating too. So those cases may provide more answers. But among the remaining mysteries of this case is one central to our story that we wanted to try and unravel. What happened to the investigative report that Officer Valentino Rodriguez wrote about the murder just before he left New Folsom Prison on stress leave. The report that his father, Val Sr., had so many questions about. In response to our requests for any reports on the murder written by Valentino, CDCR said, “We can’t locate any written reports by Valentino Rodriguez.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is very puzzling. Text messages on Valentino’s phone show he was actually working on two reports about the murder. One was an investigative memo explaining how the murder was related to gang activity. The other was a supplemental report to go with the disciplinary reports that were issued to each of the three suspects. We simply don’t know what happened to the investigative memo. It’s possible that Valentino didn’t complete it, but the other report, the supplemental, was actually leaked to us by a confidential source. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That report is also referenced in Dion Green’s public court documents. So we know that report was submitted and was in CDCR’s files in December of 2020. Why the agency’s public records team can’t find it now is a mystery. Tinkerbell says she looked at Valentino’s report and it was really well written, but-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you knew what you were reading, it didn’t, something just wasn’t connecting. It was like, this doesn’t make sense. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Valentino’s supplemental report suggests that Aguilar’s killing was motivated by a dispute between two rival prison gangs: the independent riders, or IR, and the 2-5ers. Just a side note, these are smaller, less organized gangs that more recently have been trying to get power and notoriety in California prisons. Killing can be one of the ways to do that. The report notes that the weapons that were retrieved from the scene had markings on them: 666, along with the initials IR on one, and G Satan — Green’s moniker — written on the handle of the other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It also said that Taylor participated in the killing as an initiation into the IR gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t believe any of this was for initiation. Um, I believe that they had said some shit on the tier about Aguilar and they didn’t like him and they wanted to murder someone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I talked to Taylor, he also said it had nothing to do with an initiation. Tinkerbell says Steele came to believe that that supplemental report didn’t totally make sense because it was written to serve another purpose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so Kevin said the reason that is because they told him what to write and to make sure it had a gang nexus. And I’m like, “Why would they do that?” And then he said, “To take pressure off of staff.” And I was like, okay. So staff involvement for this? Okay, I don’t know, it’s, that’s a, it’s a big bag of worms to open up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We don’t know if Valentino ever spoke with the warden about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar or about his reports. But there were those cryptic text messages with Steele on the last day of Valentino’s life — about the two sides of New Folsom — in which Steele talked about running the race, and Valentino said he wanted his name left out of “everything.” And that it “took a lot out of me to relive the truth.” Tinkerbell says Steele felt like he should have walked with Valentino into that meeting with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was feeling, taking on responsibility that he should have done more to help Rodriguez. So he felt responsible. He took on responsibility that wasn’t his.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele also felt responsible for the investigation into the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But that was another responsibility that wasn’t his to bear. He was not an internal affairs investigator. He didn’t have the authority to interview officers or track down every lead. It was his job and his explicit obligation to pass on any allegations or evidence of misconduct to higher ups. The Chief Deputy Warden, Gina Jones and the Warden Jeff Lynch. And from all the evidence we have been able to review, it appears that this is what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what happened to the case after it got handed up the chain? While that internal investigation was not released to us, we have been able to get a peek around the edges, and what we can see raises serious questions. First of all, what took so long? Internal emails that we got show that New Folsom officials delayed asking internal affairs to investigate, then the special agent assigned to the case also stalled conducting the investigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An oversight agency did not conclude that that delay was intentional, but said the special agent also “failed to conduct effective interviews and didn’t talk to a crucial witness.” It’s not clear which witness they are talking about. But we do know they never got that final interview with Kevin Steele. The interview that a special agent called him about on the last day of his life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs investigation did result in the discipline of three officers. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The guy who didn’t fire his mini 14 or didn’t- said he didn’t have his mini 14 on him — who was the Tower guard — he got a 5% salary reduction for three months. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This incident was over 60 seconds long. I don’t wanna hear that. That’s such bullshit. He failed to act: violation. I cannot wrap my head around it. What else happened to the other officers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell her there was one officer who failed to respond to alarms both during the stabbing of Michael Britt and then again during the Aguilar homicide. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he got a 5% salary reduction for 12 months. Um, the third person who was disciplined, who got the highest discipline, was the one who took a video of the video.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was an officer who’d used his phone to take a video of the surveillance footage of the homicide, and then he’d shared it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what he got disciplined for — not for failing to protect the inmates or failing to respond or, you know, letting people outta their cuffs or any of that. It was for the video, um, for sharing the video. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my God, like, I just don’t understand how, I don’t understand how they haven’t been prosecuted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well also like, we just kind of found out, like through our investigation that they were not like- none of the officers were interviewed about this, um, by OIA until after Kevin was dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are fucking kidding me? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was a murder in the institution where all of these people failed to fucking respond. There was two, two for sure incidents and then a fucking dry run. There was videos of all of this that Kevin gave and that they didn’t fuck-ing interview anybody? Oh, Jesus Christ. Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has to pause for a moment to collect herself. She looks through her phone and reads out a message from Steele.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“How to kill a cop. I know. Alone, betrayed, enveloped in corruption.” These are like some of the, the texts that Steele sent me, like he was just… “Broken, betrayal, double crossed and sold out.” These are things that Kevin sent me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says, what Steele did — coming forward — was incredibly hard to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you know how much courage it must have taken Kevin and Val to go to them and try to expose the wrongdoing? Do you know how much courage that must have taken?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the years, she says she’s witnessed and heard about a lot of things that troubled her, but she was afraid to come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s so many people that want to say something, but the fear… As a parent, right? What are some of our biggest fears? Our kids going to prison, us getting a call that something happened to them, finding out they have a medical issue that’s not curable. That fear has got nothing on the daily fear that you, you deal with walking into an institution if you’re viewed in a bad light. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She said she’s talking to us now because she doesn’t want what happened to Steele and what happened to Valentino to happen to anyone else. But that doesn’t mean she isn’t still afraid. She is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am, you know, willing to subject myself, when people find out or if people find out — I know it’s not if I know it’s a matter of when — that I’m just a two-faced inmate-loving rat piece of shit who’s trying to get good officers in trouble. And my view is that if they were good officers, they wouldn’t have done criminal activity. So don’t you put that on me. I didn’t make those decisions. I made the decision to not come forward with a lot of the information that I had because I was so afraid for my safety, my family’s safety, and my livelihood after.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since we aired her voice in that last episode three weeks ago, Tinkerbell has gotten a lot of calls and texts from people who recognized her voice. She’s also been called a dirty cop, publicly, by someone she doesn’t even know. But she still said we could use her voice in this episode. And she said she hopes other people can find the courage to do the right thing and come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But my journey is the exact sames as Kevin’s in regards to we want people held accountable. And at the time, Val, Val was still’s motivation. Okay? Val and Kevin are a part of my motivation, but they’re not my sole motivation. My motivation is I want this to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up next time in our final episode, Julie and I walk through the gates of New Folsom prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t usually stress out, but I haven’t been in a prison for a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh here we go, CSP-Sac.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You feeling it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m feeling it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we speak to two correctional officers who did wanna go on the record with us, because like Tinkerbell, they’ve seen too many of their fellow officers pay a price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, two of them that are dead. Because to find the truth. That should shock the shit out of everybody that’s still there. And I don’t understand how it’s not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re listening to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom, from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauléon. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fuda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR and KQED’s Ted Goldberg. And thank you to Alan Lurie of BOA Security who walked me through the mechanics of the transport boxes and the handcuffs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional Music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor Jr, Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News, and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1712707748,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":384,"wordCount":12706},"headData":{"title":"7. “We Don’t Do Coincidence” | S2: New Folsom | KQED","description":"We get to listen in on confidential interviews conducted by Sgt. Kevin Steele before his death. Plus, we finally get to see surveillance footage from inside the B8 unit that sheds new light on the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialDescription":"We get to listen in on confidential interviews conducted by Sgt. Kevin Steele before his death. Plus, we finally get to see surveillance footage from inside the B8 unit that sheds new light on the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"7. “We Don’t Do Coincidence” | S2: New Folsom","datePublished":"2024-04-02T10:00:40.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-10T00:09:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5469603434.mp3?updated=1712016118","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11981573/7-we-dont-do-coincidences-s2-new-folsom","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We get to listen in on confidential interviews conducted by Sgt. Kevin Steele before his death. Plus, we finally get to see surveillance footage from inside the B8 unit that sheds new light on the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s note: After this episode first aired on April 2, 2024, CDCR finally located Valentino Rodriguez’s supplemental report about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar that we reference in this episode. Their public records team was initially unable to find it. However, the agency said the report was exempt from disclosure.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5469603434\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes descriptions of violence and references a homicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, is it powered on? Can you hear it going? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s the day after Julie and I met with our confidential source, and we’re back in the office with our editor, Victoria. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not, it’s not reading it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re absolutely reeling from what we’ve been given: memos, internal prison emails, and these video CDs that have Sergeant Kevin Steele’s own handwriting on them. It’s key evidence that Steele had saved, according to our source, both to protect himself and because he’d become so concerned that his own law enforcement agency might try to destroy it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But wait, did you put a disc in it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Try putting a disc in it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tried. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wouldn’t do anything? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it was just dead. Right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But at first, the most important videos won’t play. It turns out to watch the practice run and the homicide, we need some special software. So, Julie, Victoria and I huddle in front of Julie’s computer and we try another disc: the one labeled “Taylor.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. So let’s try-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is reading it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s try Taylor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Wait, hold on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh Lord. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we find out that Cody Taylor, the guy who was so afraid of having this interview come out, is the one who started almost everything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. This is Sergeant Steele in the room. It is now about almost 8:30 on Friday, July the third. I’m also in the room with inmate Taylor. Is that your name?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The video opens with a familiar scene: Steele holding up his black military watch to the camera to record the time. At this point, it’s been almost seven months since the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. Taylor has already pled guilty to the murder and taken his 102 year sentence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I came in here, I told you what we were gonna talk about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let me itemize that. We’re gonna talk about a letter that you sent. We’re gonna talk about some things that you know, and we’re also gonna talk about some things that you’ve noticed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, correct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, and also you asked me before I started recording, you said, “Hey, I wanna tell you the real reason why I’m here.” Did you not say that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele reads Taylor his rights as he sits in a cage about the size of a phone booth. He’s a white guy wearing a sleeveless undershirt. You can see a large tattoo of a woman’s face in the center of his upper chest, and another tattoo that’s harder to make out snaking down the left side of his face. Steele holds up a handwritten document to the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And my signature.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s undated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele has been asked by his boss, a lieutenant in the ISU, to find out more about this letter — this letter that Cody Taylor sent to the warden of New Folsom Prison, making some pretty big allegations. Allegations that up until now, Taylor says he’s kept quiet about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…speculations. I just never, you know, I’ve never admitted it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just used the word “admitted it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that you’ve always known that there are things that are unknown-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unknown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or in the shadows. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, of course. Of course. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so what you’re saying is, you know that you have direct information to validate those- that speculation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have direct information. If, if the video evidence is still there, that’s more than enough on both occasions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, we go back inside the day room one final time. To look at what this video evidence shows about the claims of each of the murderers. To find out how Steele had looked at this case, and if his obsession had gone too far. And to ask who should answer for the death of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Musical break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get further into this evidence, I just wanted to let you know that KQED agreed to pay some costs so the confidential source could bring us these materials. It’s not something we usually do, but in this case, we decided it was appropriate. We needed to safeguard the evidence, protect our source, and finish our investigation in time. Now let’s get back to Steele’s interview with Cody Taylor about the letter he sent, which was addressed to Warden Jeff Lynch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or do you need to look at it again to review it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, I, I, I pretty much know what it’s about. Um, would you like me to summarize it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele he sent this letter because he’s fed up with how he’s been treated since the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cell search daily, which isn’t policy. Um, you know, the little bit of property I do have, you know, um, destroyed on a daily basis. Uh, personal, uh, hygiene and, and food items spread out sometimes — it’s happened twice. Um, shoe prints on my bed, the list goes on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he thinks it’s retaliation — that the murder made the prison look bad. And he says there’s been a lot of speculation about officers lending them a helping hand, which he is now ready to talk about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll be willing to take a lie detector test. Um, ’cause everything that I’m saying and have said in that letter is 1000% honest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor explains, going back to the assault on Michael Britt two months before the murder, they had an understanding with the officers in the unit. Britt, if you remember, was Dion Green’s enemy, who he’d already tried to kill at a different prison once before. Yet prison officials put Britt and Green in the same housing section and let them all have day room together \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While walking out, the sergeant and the lieutenant said, “Hey man, you’re on your own, cuz. Have fun with these guys.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They said that to Britt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Said that to Britt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by them saying that, are you, is your inference that they knew what was about to happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, because the sergeant asked me if this could not happen today because he’s trying to go home. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant said, could this not happen today because he’s going home?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I said, it’s only business, big dog.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says the officers let them carry on with their business: attacking Michael Britt. Just a side note, we didn’t get a video of the Britt incident, so it’s the one that’s the hardest to analyze, but we were leaked some still images that show Taylor and Rodriguez stabbing Britt as Green looks on from a nearby chair. A still image taken a minute and a half later shows the two attackers standing in the middle of the day room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reports say the control booth officer shot those foam batons, but he didn’t use lethal force. Then about eight weeks after they tried to kill Britt, there was the practice run. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We tested everything out a week prior. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele how he was in the day room, got out of his cuffs, slipped the black boxes, ran up the stairs, got the knives from Dion Green’s cell, and came back down. All of which the tower officer saw, but didn’t do anything about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So how do you know that they knew that you had weapons? How would you know that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, not necessarily weapons, but he asked me what I went up there and grabbed. When he opened up the thing, he’s like, “Why’d you do that? Why’d you go up there and grab it?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’d you tell him? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said, “Man, just relax. It’s all good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He goes-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Initially, Taylor says the plan was to murder Aguilar that day — the day of the practice run. They knew he’d have to walk through the day room on his way back from a morning group, but ultimately he and Anthony Rodriguez decided to wait until a later day — a day when they could get him in the day room alone, not under an officer escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, just outta respect for the staff because they were, you know, looking out for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele asks Taylor about one of those ways that staff was supposedly looking out for them, that Taylor talked about in his letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You said, and I I’m gonna quote you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It says, “Keys were given to us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keys were given to you by who?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Real keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real cuff. Cuff keys.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real long cuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not homemade, not manufacturer keys. They’re the real deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Broken off handcuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele later interviewed a different man who’d been in the B8 unit. This guy told him that, “Everyone knew the cops were working with those guys, they could run around without getting shot.” And he told Steele that cops had given Green a real cuff key and that it was being used to make copies. In the video with Steele, Taylor says, the day of the murder where they went after Luis Giovanny Aguilar, staff once again, knew what was gonna happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m not exaggerating when I tell you this. Not only all staff knew, but cer- I believe certain staff left the buildings ’cause they didn’t want to be involved, I believe. Because they were transferring to another institution and they were like, “Hey man, we’re I’m this, this my up my transfer. I’m not trying to be involved.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when you say transfer, ’cause they’re trying to transfer to Mule Creek?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mule Creek Prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You had told me that just right before this today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right before. And he goes, “I’m not gonna be involved because,” um… Or no, “I couldn’t be involved in the fun because I’m trying to get a transfer.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is one of those details in Taylor’s story that to me has the granularity and messiness of truth. It’s such an odd thing to make up, and it’s something that Steele was later able to confirm. Two officers in the unit had transferred to Mule Creek State Prison shortly after. Steele continues going over the letter and Taylor explains how they’d also made this agreement with officers not to double lock their cuffs so that they could get out of the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele to go back and look at the video of the murder. While he says he hasn’t seen it himself, he thinks a moment was caught on tape that will prove his point. As they were going through the security protocol at his cell door, the officer who was cuffing him made a mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m coming outta my door and he accidentally double locks my right foot. That being said, my left lock is p- is still not double locked. Um, but my right one is. I look, I look to the right and I tell him, “Hey, you fucked up. That shit is double locked.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor claims the officer kneeled down outside his door and undid the double lock on his right ankle cuff. But Taylor says the day of the murder, they did have one new factor to worry about. They didn’t know the guy in the control booth or tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve already had these conversations with the previous tower with Britt. Everything was good. He wasn’t gonna kill us. Right? But there was a new cop in there. So I made sure I said, look man, you know, we’re half-ass doing you guys a favor. You know, this guy assaulted you and shit. You know, we have our own- word for word. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have our own reasons too, but can you make sure, uh, your tower doesn’t kill us? He goes, um, I don’t really know him, but I’m gonna talk to him right now. You should be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor had told me a lot of the same things that he told Steele. Some of these details I didn’t include in the last episode because I couldn’t verify them. Like the officers trying to transfer, or the supposed footage of an officer kneeling down at his door. But now that we had these memos and videos, these were things we could check. Near the end of the tape, Steele brings the conversation back to Taylor’s motivation for sending his letter to the warden. What does he hope to get out of this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The real reason, the impetus, the reason that you wrote this is, again, about your housing placement, the treatment, and the fact that you, your, your real longing is to go to Salinas Valley unencumbered with anything from here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just want to move on. I just, you know, I feel that I took one on the chin. You know, I-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This appears to be what he’s proposing. He’ll continue to keep quiet about officers’ involvement in the murder in exchange for suspending his solitary confinement, or SHU term, and transferring him to Salinas Valley State Prison where he says he’ll be safer with members of his own gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to move all this behind me-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… and start over right there. Um, but I feel that I shouldn’t remain in the SHU, be treated as I’m being treated. And, and after, you know what? Initially, hey, I, I didn’t say shit, man. I didn’t say shit to nobody. And, and I’m, if anything, I should be treated like a king for me remaining silent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he doesn’t want anything, money or anything else, and he says he’ll even sign a non-disclosure agreement if that would help. Because his point is not to get staff in trouble. If he wanted to do that, he’d have gone about this in a totally different way. He’d have filed a formal complaint, told his family who worked in law enforcement or called the press. But he wanted to see if he could work this out directly with the warden. So he sent that letter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My co-defendants don’t even know about that letter. Nobody knows about that letter besides me. My co-defendants- I don’t speak to Mr. Green no more, but Rodriguez doesn’t even know about that letter. Nobody-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now Taylor says he’s at a boiling point.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you fools didn’t even do an investigat- Excuse me, I don’t know that, but I’m just assuming you guys didn’t even do an investigation into your officers. They might have been redirected, but I’m sure nobody’s gotten fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, that’s, that’s a, that’s a coverup in itself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor is right about one thing, at the time of this interview. From what we can see, Internal Affairs hasn’t started investigating this incident and no one has been fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who do you want to see this video? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I’m gonna go ahead and conclude. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not totally clear to me what to make of Taylor’s motives here. Okay, so he’s not trying to get out of criminal charges, but does he really believe he’s going to strike a deal with the warden? And if so, why turn to Kevin Steele — a rule follower — to be his blackmail delivery guy? On the other hand, if he’s just lying to stir up shit for officers, what does he hope to get out of it? An investigation that’s only gonna bring a whole bunch more scrutiny and danger down on him? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I have another question about this interview from the prison’s side of things. Why was Steele the one assigned to do it in the first place? There were clearly already rumors going around about this murder among witnesses in the unit. A different letter alleging it was a setup had already been mailed to the District Attorney’s office within weeks of the murder. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if you’re the warden, why assign this to someone in-house? For simple optics reasons, it seems like getting headquarters to review would be the cleanest course of action. CDCR says they cannot comment on this case, and that it’s part of an ongoing investigation involving outside law enforcement. But whatever the warden thought he was doing by sending Steele in to do this interview, and whatever Taylor thought he was doing walking into this interview, those choices start a chain reaction that likely neither prison officials nor Cody Taylor wanted. An investigation that winds up in the lap of the FBI and a lawsuit brought against prison officials by the mother of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What happens next in the chain reaction set off by Taylor’s letter is that Steele wants to find corroboration. After that first interview with Taylor, in emails to his bosses, including the warden, Steele shares what he’s uncovering. He sounds activated and eager to move on Taylor’s claims. He says he’s already talked to Green about some of these issues with the murder, and he asks permission to try and talk to Anthony Rodriguez, the third murder suspect who took part in the stabbing with Taylor. It doesn’t appear that Anthony Rodriguez ever agreed to that, but someone else did agree to go on tape with Steele. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead and introduce yourself please.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Green J22161. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this video, Dion Green is now the one in the cage and Steele starts off the same as he did with Taylor by noting the time and date. It’s July 17th, 2020, and reading him his rights. This is Steele’s first recorded interview with Green, but he acknowledges that they have talked about the murder before while handling stuff for court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And in a roundabout way, you told me that it would’ve never happened had staff not participated in that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we listened in on this interview, hoping to understand this next phase of Steele’s investigation, and what Green had said to Steele that had convinced him that officers had a hand in the murder, we realized that many of those conversations had already happened off camera, and this set up a very odd dynamic in this interview. For example, Steele brings out a pair of handcuffs to get Green to demonstrate the double locking mechanism, but it’s clear this is a replay for the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I brought these very same cuffs down last week and I asked you a simple question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you remember that question? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked you whether I can get these cuffs open if they’re double locked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele double locks the cuffs and hands Green, a flat metal shim. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you get those open with that shim? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I already know that I can’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In case you missed that, he says, “I already know that I can’t.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green is very soft spoken throughout this interview. He says he sometimes hesitates because he has Parkinson’s and because going on the record is dangerous. Steele, meanwhile, is a man in constant motion. A man now animated by this mission to find the truth about this murder. And what these two very different styles lead to are these exchanges where Green hesitates, and instead of waiting for him to respond, Steele jumps in — helping him and clearly leading him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would think that you guys making the weapons and cutting the- the desks, it would seem to me that that would require a lot of effort on your part. It would make a lot of noise. And possibly it would require some extra stuff that maybe you don’t have access to. What do you think on that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, of course, I mean-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele brings up the noise of making the weapons and Green picks up on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have to be able to hear that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The scraping, you mean the grinding or-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Verbal scraping noise] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">you know, the, you know, you’ve seen the weapons that was used. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the way I ran this by an officer who said that on its own, this isn’t a credible piece of evidence. A lot of these units are really loud and the sound of making the weapons could easily be missed by officers. But Steele doesn’t push back or point out how noisy the unit is. It seems like he just accepts what Green’s saying and moves on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Was there any, any um, extra things that were provided to enable you to cut the, the Steele from the desk? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, only way when we can get or use… they provided, and that was the clipper heads and stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re talking about the tool used to make the knives the head of a hair clipper. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say they, who are you talking about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staff brought you clipper heads? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To your cell? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, it’s like Steele already knows the answers he’s looking for. Clearly they have talked about this before. Now that’s likely part of why Steele is asking these questions like this: to prompt a reluctant witness to share things he’s said before, but now to do it for the record. But the end result is that there are these huge moments where it feels like Steele is testifying himself rather than eliciting answers from Green. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I’m understanding you, you’re saying if it can happen to Aguilar, it can happen to you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Of course. Absolutely. Absolutely. At any time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taken a step further, you’re saying that staff could facilitate you being in the wrong place at the wrong time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely. Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we watched this recording, I was also listening for things that Green had told me, which you heard about last episode. But Green does not mention Aguilar being a child molester or that the killing was ordered by the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit, Eric Baker. He doesn’t say anything about the drugs he told me that an officer brought to his cell to give to Taylor and Rodriguez’s payment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The story that Green tells Steele first is actually the closest to how Taylor and Rodriguez have described the incident. Not a hit ordered by the officers, but an assault that they facilitated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We could not have killed this man. He would be alive today if it wasn’t for the, the assistance and the help of your staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He tells Steele that officers agreed to make Aguilar — who was associated with an enemy gang, who was known to be disrespectful and assault staff — available to them in the ways we’ve talked about before. There’d be no kill shot and no double locking the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think there’s a possibility that the officer made a mistake twice when he, when he didn’t double lock those cuffs?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not no damn mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not a mistake. Not twice in a row? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not. You, you are a professional.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your job-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you don’t think it’s a mistake or an oversight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With, with with, with us… the caliber of men that we are… I go back to this: the caliber men- of who I am and my two brothers, and the hits that we have put down…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are the number one security threat in B8. We are. So to not secure us… to not secure us?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… is a problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, Steele asks Green if there’s anything he’d like to say to the people who this video is for: the warden and the chief deputy warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What would you wanna say to them? If anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green rocks forward in his seat slightly. There’s a little open slot in the side of the cage that he peers through to look into the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, um, I’m asking for my safety. My livelihood is, you know, I’m asking for, you know, to be placed nowhere in the state of California. Nowhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this interview, Steele and Green will record at least three more interviews. Unfortunately, we don’t have all those recordings, but we do know that Steele came to believe much of Green’s story. And I think part of that is because he began to feel responsible for him. At the very, very beginning of this first video, Steele starts the tape rolling while Green is in the middle of saying something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just want me just to take your word? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do. I know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele puts his word on the line to convince Green to put his life on the line. And even if Green’s motives aren’t pure, that danger is real. In the months to come, confidential information about Green’s testimony and Taylor’s letter is leaked out to officers and word spreads that he talked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That I’m a whistleblower rat for ex- exposing this ongoing corruption of staff and that I need to be taken out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a clip from one of those later interviews that we did get. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say calling you a whistleblower, when, what does that term mean to you? Whistleblower?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, whistleblower to me means- okay in terms of, you know, uh, Snowden, you know Snowden?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Edward Snowden who leaked secrets about the NSA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it can take on a bad connotation sometimes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it is again, a government program intended to expose corruption. That’s what it’s designed for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says he’s being called this for a different reason.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The purpose is only one purpose. That purpose is to get me hurt very badly. To get me killed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming across this exchange was such a meta moment for me. These two men discussing the meaning of the term “whistleblower,” the term that came to define Sergeant Kevin Steele, but did not protect him. And the term that has marked Dion Green as well. While it’s possible that Steele got too close to Green to see him clearly, Green’s testimony is not the only evidence Steele had to go on. Now it is not the only evidence that we have to go on either. We finally did figure out how to play the surveillance videos of Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s murder and the practice run, and we found an expert to help us decode them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanted to start by having Julie show you the video of what has been called the Practice Run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A couple weeks after we got these videos and memos about the Aguilar homicide, we met up with another confidential source. I was on Zoom and Julie was in the studio. This man is a retired sergeant who knows a lot about internal affairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is just- Yeah, the practice run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there’s no sound. You know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He watches it play. The video leaked to us is pretty short. Four minutes and 22 seconds. When it starts, Taylor and Rodriguez are already sitting at the individual desks in the day room. Rodriguez is on the left and Taylor is on the right. You don’t see how Taylor escapes his restraints because when the video starts, he’s clearly already gotten out of the handcuffs, which are supposed to be attached to a chain around his waist, and the ankle shackles that are supposed to be fixing him to the chair. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor sweeps his right leg out to shake off the ankle chain and then runs around the desk and up the stairs leading to Green’s cell. He kind of trips at the top of the stairs, recovers, and then grabs something — the knives — from under the door. He tucks them into the open front of his white prison jumpsuit. As he runs back down the stairs, he adjusts the knives in his waistband and then sits back down in his chair. Anthony Rodriguez gives him a big smile and kind of bounces up and down in his seat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor starts putting his restraints back on. The first time watching it through, the sergeant is pretty unconvinced that staff would’ve necessarily noticed the action in the unit. Just a note, this sergeant didn’t want us to use his voice. So the voice you’re gonna hear is actually one of our colleagues repeating exactly what the confidential source said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you watch the inmates, one of them is clearly the lookout. So if staff are involved, why is he so intent on identifying whether or not staff are in the picture, whether or not staff are coming?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says if the control booth officer was paying attention the way they were supposed to, these guys shouldn’t have been able to do this. But he said that complicity is not the only explanation for the security failure. It could also be laziness or incompetence, but he wants to see it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This time we ask him to check out these two moments that happen at the very edge of what the camera captures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are the moments where you can see staff interacting with Taylor and Rodriguez. Taylor has just sat back down in his chair and he’s starting to get his restraints back on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then there’s somebody that comes to the window of the rotunda, which you can also see in the video. Let’s see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie plays the first clip where an officer appears at the window of the rotunda. That’s the central area outside the housing section. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what it looks like to me, if I wanna be skeptical, it looks like he’s- so, he’s got his hands on the window and then he goes like \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">this\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is like cuffs, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie zooms in so the sergeant can see the officer in the rotunda who looks like he’s holding up two fists next to each other, kind of pantomiming the gesture for cuffs. And Rodriguez holds up his hands showing, yeah, he’s still in restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah. He is like, “Look, yeah, I’m good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmhmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer disappears from the window. So maybe he had a question about whether they were in their cuffs or not, but he’s satisfied by what he sees. Then almost as soon as he disappears, another officer steps into view in the control booth. The sergeant starts manipulating the video himself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just zoomed in on the tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He pushes play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh shit, he’s giving hand signals. Do you see his hands? He’s giving hand signals. That’s weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer in the control booth is clearly doing something with his hands. It could be that this guy just talks with his hands a lot. But the sergeant says what’s giving him pause is that hand signals are a common way for incarcerated people to talk to each other on the yard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The problem I have is that there’s clearly a control booth cop up there, somebody up there. And what I really don’t like is how he’s communicating with the inmates. There’s something very familiar about what he’s doing with those inmates. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At the tail end of this back and forth, as the control booth officer disappears from view, Taylor adjusts the front of his jumpsuit and then he draws the waist chain of the shackles back over his head. Then he pulls the objects out of his waistband, bends over and slips them in his left sock. In all it takes three and a half minutes for him to put his ankle shackles and his handcuffs back on. The sergeant rewinds the video and watches it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s running up the stairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no way he should have been up the stairs. There’s no way he should have been able to do what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says this video is not the full picture. He wishes he could see what happened in the minutes before it starts and in the minutes after. But he says, bottom line, the video is proof officers did not do what they were supposed to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What should have happened? There should have been a button press. There should have been alarm, there should have been people coming in. They should have been extracted from there. There should be, there’s all kinds of things that should have happened. So do I think he saw the dude was unshackled? A hundred percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This matches Taylor’s version of events: that an officer saw he’d gotten something from Green’s cell, asked him what he was doing, and Taylor told him not to worry about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And here’s what stands out to me. If officers had gone in and checked if they’d found the weapons concealed on Taylor’s body and confiscated them, Taylor and Rodriguez would not have had those knives a week later and so may not have been able to go forward with the attack at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yeah, it’s pretty ugly. It’s supposed to be the most secured housing unit in the entire state of California. This is terrible. This is such a disgrace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should I do one camera angle at a time or is it better to do it this way?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So do the one, the left hand view where you can see Taylor coming out of his cell first.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next we showed the sergeant the video of the murder itself. When it starts, Luis Giovanny Aguilar is already in the day room. This is something that Taylor, Green and Rodriguez all say was prearranged with officers. A group of three officers approach Taylor cell on the second tier of the housing unit. The officers wave at the control booth to open the cell door and you can see Taylor from behind. He’s in a white prison jumpsuit kneeling with his back to the doorway. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should we zoom in? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, if you can. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An officer named Demond Sykes gets down to secure Taylor’s ankle shackles. Sykes reaches for something in his belt and the sergeant explains that’s him going for his keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the only reason he’d be pulling his cuff key is to use the end of the cuff key as the double lock.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The cuffs automatically single lock when you ratchet them closed. To engage the double lock, you have to do one more step: use the end of the cuff key to push this little pin into the side of the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, he’s just double locked him ’cause you see him go to his belt and then come back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, as they step out of the cell, Taylor turns to his right and says something to Sykes, the officer who just secured his cuffs. Then Taylor kneels down again this time outside the cell on the tier. I tell the sergeant that this is a moment that Taylor told Steele was evidence that staff were involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says this moment shows they- that accidentally Sykes double locked his right cuff and he came out of his cell and he goes to Sykes, “Are we double locking today?” Because if he’s double locked he can’t get out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Sykes gets back down on his knees and goes, “Oops, my bad.” And un-double-locks just the right hand cuffed — the left hand one was not double locked already — and then they proceed with the rest of the escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant rewinds and zooms in comparing the first time Officer Sykes locks the ankle cuffs with the second time he goes down to adjust them. The innocent explanation is that Taylor said the cuffs were too tight and Sykes loosened them. But even so, the cuffs should still have been double locked after loosening them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, it lends more credence and more credit to the fact that he was taking off the double lock. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They bring Taylor down the stairs and have him kneel on this chair that’s in the middle of the day room. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why is he on the chair? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officers are putting those black boxes on that cover the keyhole of his ankle cuffs. Then they chain him to one of the fixed day room chairs. Next they go through the whole security protocol with Anthony Rodriguez. Put the black boxes on him and chain him to a seat two desks away from Taylor. Then the officers file out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then just, yeah, like watch, watch through for- from there, like them getting out and the kind of choreography of everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Immediately Rodriguez and Taylor start messing with their restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re, they’re looking at the control booth an awful lot. Like, to me they’re looking to see if anybody’s coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It takes almost two minutes for them to get out of their restraints. But again, if someone in the control booth was paying attention, that’s quite a bit of time to miss that these guys are up to something. Then both Taylor and Rodriguez are out. The next moment looks synchronized from the motion of them placing their right hands on the desks, standing up, running up the stairs. This time, Rodriguez is the one who gets something from Green’s cell. Rodriguez comes back down. They both hit the bottom of the staircase with Taylor in front. He kind of steps toward the control booth and the door with this big grin on his face. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who’s he smiling at?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was someone at the door. They, the, the control booth officer began to open the door as he’s coming down the stairs. So Taylor kind of goes before he has a knife or anything, kind of makes that motion towards the door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a key moment that passes in a flash. But it’s important because it’s another opportunity for officers to step in before anything happens. But then, almost as quickly as it opens, the door closes again. Officers do not rush in. Rodriguez hands something to Taylor and they run over and begin stabbing Aguilar. At this point, policy requires that officers act immediately to stop a deadly threat. But they still have to decide how to act based on the situation. What the control booth officer does is fire the first of those foam or rubber projectiles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh gosh, a rubber round just came out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the sergeant if this seems late to him, he goes back in and looks at the timestamps. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So six seconds between the time the rubber round comes out and do I think that’s late? No. Here’s part of the problem. Part of the problem is that up until they get to him, they’re just out of restraints. And I can promise you that every control cop in the world is gonna sit there and second guess using any sort of force at that point. Because they’re gonna say to you, this is what the department’s gonna say to me. “Where was the threat?” And you’re gonna go, well, they were outta their handcuffs. They were running around the building. “Okay, where was the threat?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says six seconds as a response time is understandable, but what is less understandable is what happens from this point on. The sergeant says even if this officer didn’t have the mini 14 rifle — the deadly force option — slung on his body, which they’re supposed to, it would’ve been close by. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He could have very easily grabbed the mini. You can’t make that decision for him. That’s the challenge. You know, if he, I, if I had almost, you know, 20 years in the department, I’d have picked up the mini and unloaded it on those guys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But he says that’s him with his experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know what he would’ve done. And the same thing for the sergeant standing at the door and the sergeant standing at the door. I saw him making radio calls pretty much immediat- well, immediately while he was there I would’ve gone in a lot sooner than he did. But that’s me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says the officers should have gone in as soon as they had the numbers to go in — at least four officers at the door. On the video, the two men continue to rapidly and repeatedly stab Aguilar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like there’s multiple opportunities, you know, to do it. See this guy’s just stabbing him. I put a bullet in him already. I mean he’s clearly making stabbing motions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At one point they even stop stabbing him, kind of hiding behind the desks and then Taylor eggs on Rodriguez and Rodriguez goes back and continues.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then he goes back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems like Rodriguez finishes stabbing Aguilar. He stands up with his back to the control booth and Taylor steps forward and lands a last kick on Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When he gets up to kick him. Yeah, he, he gets shot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can see Taylor recoil as he gets hit by one of those foam rounds. Aguilar doesn’t appear to be moving anymore. Rodriguez throws the knife toward the door and lies down on his stomach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If they don’t have an agreement with the officer to not shoot them dead. They have reason to believe that, that at some point during this he likely could \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And should, I mean all things… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh yeah, they should be dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watching it, it feels like a long time. As second after second it moves forward to its awful conclusion. But looking at the timestamp from the moment the stabbing itself began until they stopped, it was little more than a minute. After we watch the videos, I ask the sergeant about Taylor’s testimony to Steele. To me, those details he offered are the most compelling evidence I’ve seen so far that officers knew the attack was going to happen, and I wanted to see what he made of Taylor’s motive for coming forward — the deal he was trying to strike with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only, the only person that would think they could get that is someone who’s already worked with dirty staff. That’s the only, that’s the only reason, ’cause he knows it’s gotta be strings pulled. Like, hey, like if he honestly thinks that he did what he did then, then he honestly thinks that he can get that too. So, you know, just, it just leds a whole lot of credibility to his story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor, Rodriguez and Green all say that staff knew an attack was going to happen on December 12th, 2019. I’ve spoken to additional witnesses who were incarcerated in the unit who also say that staff knew it was going to happen. The sergeant says he still has a hard time believing that officers ordered the hit. And he says they may not have even known it was gonna be deadly. But-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no doubt in my mind staff knew it was going to happen. I mean, I’ve been on the yard, okay? And I’ve had what happens is staff start to develop rapport with inmates and inmates will tell, um, the staff like, “Hey, you probably don’t wanna come to work tomorrow.” It happens all the time. All the time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in law enforcement, yeah, we, we don’t do coincidence. And certainly if there is a coincidence, it’s not a whole whole entire scenario. So the fact that you have not once, not twice, but three times, these two guys got out of their cell and were able to do the same thing with weapons is not a coincidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Tinkerbell again, the retired correctional officer who you heard from last episode. She says, at the very least, this pattern, the Britt incident, the practice run, and the homicide points to negligence on the part of officers. She says higher ups knew there were issues even running a day room in this high security unit. And there were issues with these three guys in particular.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether you have any humanity or not, we are paid to do a job. And if you don’t do their job and somebody gets killed, you should not sleep well at night. And if you say and do shit to instigate that, or further it, or fail to stop it when you knew or had prior knowledge, then shame on you. You are no better than the people that you are earning your retirement from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says she knew Steele was looking into things, talking to the suspects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was conducting an internal investigation that Internal Affairs refused to do. And when Internal Affairs had it, they covered it up or closed it out because they did not want any part of this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs did eventually look into the murder and some of the officers who were on duty that day did get disciplined, but there were some serious problems with that investigation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we’d gotten a chance to see the videos and the other evidence we were leaked. I had started trying to make contact with the officers named in the lawsuit, brought by Aguilar’s mom. The Attorney General’s office that’s representing them declined my request for an interview and referred me back to CDCR. CDCR has declined to comment on the case. But I also started emailing and calling some officers individually. I left a message for Demond Sykes, the guy who Taylor says didn’t double lock him, but he didn’t get back to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also reached out to a number of officers on Facebook, including Eric Baker, the man who was the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit in 2019 when the murder happened, and the guy who Dion Green says was behind everything. Surprisingly Baker responded by calling me up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, would you mind if I record it or does that make you uncomfortable? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He didn’t want me to record the call, but he did agree to speak to me on the record, and I recorded my side of the phone call. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have talked to other officers, other law enforcement, other investigators who say that the pattern of these three guys working together, getting outta their cuffs multiple times in the same unit in the space of a couple months, like how does that happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker asked, how do people do these kinds of things all the time in prison? Criminal, he said, is a word that comes to mind, along with time and ingenuity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. What is your take on why they weren’t disciplined when they got outta their cuffs for the practice run? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he was unaware of any practice run and that if staff had seen Rodriguez and Taylor out of their cuffs, there would have been a report. There was no report, so it couldn’t have happened the way I’d heard it did. Now, Anthony Rodriguez said Baker didn’t know anything about the murder ahead of time, but Green had told me Baker had orchestrated things. So I felt like I had to ask Baker about Green’s allegations directly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I don’t, I just doesn’t need to be like super confrontational. I just wanna get your take on it. Um, but you know, the “shot caller” Dion Green, you know, said that you were, you know, basically behind this whole thing that you participated with him and ordered him to do this. Can you speak to that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker did not directly respond to this question, and I was a bit flustered, but he kind of scoffed at the idea I was even asking it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am asking you as a person to say, did you have anything to do with it, and did you work with Dion Green to- so I just want a straightforward answer from you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker said, I should already have my answer. He says the Office of Internal Affairs did a 19 month investigation and that they didn’t find he’d done anything wrong. But again, he didn’t directly respond to the allegation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so are you, are you refusing to deny that you had anything to do with it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he couldn’t answer my question because the case was in active litigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I understand why you can’t answer. I am just also wanted to give you the opportunity to answer if you so choose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, he told me he didn’t need to clear the air, saying that him talking to me doesn’t determine the future of his career, his past or his present. And he pointed out that in the years since the murder, he’s actually been promoted. He’s a captain now. That, he said, should tell me something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During my conversation with him, Baker did bring up one concrete piece of evidence — his proof that officers had nothing to do with the murder. It’s a phone call made by Anthony Rodriguez on a recorded line to a loved one in which Rodriguez said officers weren’t a part of the murder and he wasn’t gonna get somebody fired over something that wasn’t true. Baker’s point was if staff had put him up to it, why would Rodriguez deny it in this casual call? So I asked Anthony Rodriguez about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said those words before, yes, I most definitely have said those words before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked why he’d say that. If officers really did help facilitate the murder the way he told me they did, why not say so? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t willing, willing to review all that stuff because at the time I had been there for a long time and I never had problems with these officers and I didn’t, I didn’t feel that I should, I should, uh, you know, be the reason to get them in trouble. You know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Rodriguez said the story that he told me was the truth. And that that is the same thing he said under oath when he gave his deposition and the lawsuit brought by Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario. He says he killed Aguilar over a slight on the yard. And that officers, while they didn’t order it or even know how serious the attack was going to be, did help him and Taylor carry it out. Rodriguez maintained that officers didn’t double lock the cuffs and that they agreed not to shoot them dead. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What strikes me is that regardless of which version of events you believe, there are just so many moments where this whole thing could have gone another way… and Aguilar would still be alive. If prison leaders had separated Taylor Rodriguez and Green following their attempted murder of Michael Britt. If officers had responded the day of the practice run and searched Taylor for weapons. If officers had double locked their cuffs. If officers had run through the doors before Rodriguez and Taylor got to Aguilar. If the control booth cop had fired his mini 14 to stop the attack.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in September of 2022, when I spoke to Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario over Zoom, she said something that really stuck with me. She said, it didn’t matter if officers ordered the hit or just looked the other way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hay un dicho que dice, que dice “tanto peca el que mata la vaca como el que le agarra la pata.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario says, there’s this saying in Mexico that translates to, “He who kills the cow sins as much as he who grabs its leg.” Even though the officers did not hold the knives that killed her son, she holds them responsible for his death. The bottom line for her is that this happened, on their watch, and they did nothing to stop it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo sé que no soy la única madre que tiene un hijo precio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I know I’m not the only mother that had a son in prison,” she says. “There are other mothers like me who hope to see their sons again one day only to find out that they’ve been unjustly killed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y que este memento le digamos que se lo mataron injustamente.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario’s lawsuit against prison officials is ongoing. As far as we know the FBI are still investigating too. So those cases may provide more answers. But among the remaining mysteries of this case is one central to our story that we wanted to try and unravel. What happened to the investigative report that Officer Valentino Rodriguez wrote about the murder just before he left New Folsom Prison on stress leave. The report that his father, Val Sr., had so many questions about. In response to our requests for any reports on the murder written by Valentino, CDCR said, “We can’t locate any written reports by Valentino Rodriguez.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is very puzzling. Text messages on Valentino’s phone show he was actually working on two reports about the murder. One was an investigative memo explaining how the murder was related to gang activity. The other was a supplemental report to go with the disciplinary reports that were issued to each of the three suspects. We simply don’t know what happened to the investigative memo. It’s possible that Valentino didn’t complete it, but the other report, the supplemental, was actually leaked to us by a confidential source. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That report is also referenced in Dion Green’s public court documents. So we know that report was submitted and was in CDCR’s files in December of 2020. Why the agency’s public records team can’t find it now is a mystery. Tinkerbell says she looked at Valentino’s report and it was really well written, but-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you knew what you were reading, it didn’t, something just wasn’t connecting. It was like, this doesn’t make sense. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Valentino’s supplemental report suggests that Aguilar’s killing was motivated by a dispute between two rival prison gangs: the independent riders, or IR, and the 2-5ers. Just a side note, these are smaller, less organized gangs that more recently have been trying to get power and notoriety in California prisons. Killing can be one of the ways to do that. The report notes that the weapons that were retrieved from the scene had markings on them: 666, along with the initials IR on one, and G Satan — Green’s moniker — written on the handle of the other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It also said that Taylor participated in the killing as an initiation into the IR gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t believe any of this was for initiation. Um, I believe that they had said some shit on the tier about Aguilar and they didn’t like him and they wanted to murder someone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I talked to Taylor, he also said it had nothing to do with an initiation. Tinkerbell says Steele came to believe that that supplemental report didn’t totally make sense because it was written to serve another purpose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so Kevin said the reason that is because they told him what to write and to make sure it had a gang nexus. And I’m like, “Why would they do that?” And then he said, “To take pressure off of staff.” And I was like, okay. So staff involvement for this? Okay, I don’t know, it’s, that’s a, it’s a big bag of worms to open up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We don’t know if Valentino ever spoke with the warden about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar or about his reports. But there were those cryptic text messages with Steele on the last day of Valentino’s life — about the two sides of New Folsom — in which Steele talked about running the race, and Valentino said he wanted his name left out of “everything.” And that it “took a lot out of me to relive the truth.” Tinkerbell says Steele felt like he should have walked with Valentino into that meeting with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was feeling, taking on responsibility that he should have done more to help Rodriguez. So he felt responsible. He took on responsibility that wasn’t his.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele also felt responsible for the investigation into the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But that was another responsibility that wasn’t his to bear. He was not an internal affairs investigator. He didn’t have the authority to interview officers or track down every lead. It was his job and his explicit obligation to pass on any allegations or evidence of misconduct to higher ups. The Chief Deputy Warden, Gina Jones and the Warden Jeff Lynch. And from all the evidence we have been able to review, it appears that this is what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what happened to the case after it got handed up the chain? While that internal investigation was not released to us, we have been able to get a peek around the edges, and what we can see raises serious questions. First of all, what took so long? Internal emails that we got show that New Folsom officials delayed asking internal affairs to investigate, then the special agent assigned to the case also stalled conducting the investigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An oversight agency did not conclude that that delay was intentional, but said the special agent also “failed to conduct effective interviews and didn’t talk to a crucial witness.” It’s not clear which witness they are talking about. But we do know they never got that final interview with Kevin Steele. The interview that a special agent called him about on the last day of his life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs investigation did result in the discipline of three officers. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The guy who didn’t fire his mini 14 or didn’t- said he didn’t have his mini 14 on him — who was the Tower guard — he got a 5% salary reduction for three months. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This incident was over 60 seconds long. I don’t wanna hear that. That’s such bullshit. He failed to act: violation. I cannot wrap my head around it. What else happened to the other officers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell her there was one officer who failed to respond to alarms both during the stabbing of Michael Britt and then again during the Aguilar homicide. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he got a 5% salary reduction for 12 months. Um, the third person who was disciplined, who got the highest discipline, was the one who took a video of the video.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was an officer who’d used his phone to take a video of the surveillance footage of the homicide, and then he’d shared it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what he got disciplined for — not for failing to protect the inmates or failing to respond or, you know, letting people outta their cuffs or any of that. It was for the video, um, for sharing the video. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my God, like, I just don’t understand how, I don’t understand how they haven’t been prosecuted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well also like, we just kind of found out, like through our investigation that they were not like- none of the officers were interviewed about this, um, by OIA until after Kevin was dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are fucking kidding me? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was a murder in the institution where all of these people failed to fucking respond. There was two, two for sure incidents and then a fucking dry run. There was videos of all of this that Kevin gave and that they didn’t fuck-ing interview anybody? Oh, Jesus Christ. Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has to pause for a moment to collect herself. She looks through her phone and reads out a message from Steele.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“How to kill a cop. I know. Alone, betrayed, enveloped in corruption.” These are like some of the, the texts that Steele sent me, like he was just… “Broken, betrayal, double crossed and sold out.” These are things that Kevin sent me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says, what Steele did — coming forward — was incredibly hard to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you know how much courage it must have taken Kevin and Val to go to them and try to expose the wrongdoing? Do you know how much courage that must have taken?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the years, she says she’s witnessed and heard about a lot of things that troubled her, but she was afraid to come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s so many people that want to say something, but the fear… As a parent, right? What are some of our biggest fears? Our kids going to prison, us getting a call that something happened to them, finding out they have a medical issue that’s not curable. That fear has got nothing on the daily fear that you, you deal with walking into an institution if you’re viewed in a bad light. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She said she’s talking to us now because she doesn’t want what happened to Steele and what happened to Valentino to happen to anyone else. But that doesn’t mean she isn’t still afraid. She is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am, you know, willing to subject myself, when people find out or if people find out — I know it’s not if I know it’s a matter of when — that I’m just a two-faced inmate-loving rat piece of shit who’s trying to get good officers in trouble. And my view is that if they were good officers, they wouldn’t have done criminal activity. So don’t you put that on me. I didn’t make those decisions. I made the decision to not come forward with a lot of the information that I had because I was so afraid for my safety, my family’s safety, and my livelihood after.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since we aired her voice in that last episode three weeks ago, Tinkerbell has gotten a lot of calls and texts from people who recognized her voice. She’s also been called a dirty cop, publicly, by someone she doesn’t even know. But she still said we could use her voice in this episode. And she said she hopes other people can find the courage to do the right thing and come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But my journey is the exact sames as Kevin’s in regards to we want people held accountable. And at the time, Val, Val was still’s motivation. Okay? Val and Kevin are a part of my motivation, but they’re not my sole motivation. My motivation is I want this to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up next time in our final episode, Julie and I walk through the gates of New Folsom prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t usually stress out, but I haven’t been in a prison for a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh here we go, CSP-Sac.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You feeling it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m feeling it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we speak to two correctional officers who did wanna go on the record with us, because like Tinkerbell, they’ve seen too many of their fellow officers pay a price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, two of them that are dead. Because to find the truth. That should shock the shit out of everybody that’s still there. And I don’t understand how it’s not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re listening to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom, from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauléon. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fuda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR and KQED’s Ted Goldberg. And thank you to Alan Lurie of BOA Security who walked me through the mechanics of the transport boxes and the handcuffs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional Music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor Jr, Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News, and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11981573/7-we-dont-do-coincidences-s2-new-folsom","authors":["8676","6625"],"programs":["news_33521"],"categories":["news_31795","news_6188","news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_18538","news_17725","news_29466","news_1471"],"featImg":"news_11981574","label":"news_33521"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. 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